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New Diamond CP

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Interesting. They must have put this up with in the last 7 hours. Cause I was on there seeing how much trouble i could get into at around 1am PDT.

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“Looks” nice.. perhaps they could have made the straps much longer,considering the new harnesses out on the market.

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Hmm... intriguing.  Looks very form-fitting with all the small pieces that can bend to your body individually.

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A cpl of observations before MadMax beats me to the punch lol. Doesn't look like modern cushioning or breath-ability there. I like the breaks and the overall design of the front side...the question is...is it better than a Champion P2xx at the $55-70 range or the Schutt XV in the $75-85 range? On the apparent padding questions alone I have my doubts....but I like the physical design and the modular options...though I wish the chest were a bit longer with a shorter add on piece. That's a huge jump from 13.5 to 18". For many of us 13.5 isnt going to be enough and 18 is way too much. It's pretty obvious that they are going after the 
West Vest crowd with this CP.

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Just now, BT_Blue said:

Wow! I read it ads 13.5 and 16. 18 is insanely long!

Exactly...lol. I like the idea of maybe going up to 17" max...beyond that you're getting into giant territory ;) at 18" there aren't many people who would be able to wear it without there being movement issues getting into the crouch upon initial thoughts.

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I agree with you @ofhs93.  Foam is 1" thick - has to be standard sofa cushion stuff.  While I'm intrigued, I'm not leaving my Adams/Schutt HDX just yet. 

I'm not sure about the neck opening either.   I can't tell by the neck size, but the shoulder area might have small coverage.

EDITED: It doesn't have the "wings" like a Gold/Platinum and XV/HDX comes with as standard equipped.   I know some remove them, but with these gone it just appears like all you have is the top covered - very little wrapping down over the front.  With the big cutout for neck and then cutout around arms... worried a ball might find a spot there. I was wrong, upon closer inspection there do appear to be removable wings/pads to help cover up this area.

Ultimately, I like the looks and functionality it appears to offer.  But, at $125 regular price ($99 special intro offer now at UA) I don't think it's going to get a lot of looks. There are too many smaller, lower profile options for $25-40 less.   Plus, the old foam doesn't help it any.  Why release a new CP without updating to D3O versus sofa foam?

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Trying to figure out how to remove the padding to wash it.  Looks like there is some sort of hook on the inside.

I didn't notice a 16 model.  Just the 13.5 and it reaches 18 with the abdominal plate.  That seems like it would be really uncomfortable for us "girthier" folks.

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17 minutes ago, conbo61 said:

Trying to figure out how to remove the padding to wash it.  Looks like there is some sort of hook on the inside.

I didn't notice a 16 model.  Just the 13.5 and it reaches 18 with the abdominal plate.  That seems like it would be really uncomfortable for us "girthier" folks.

There isnt a 15 or 16" and to go from 13.5 to 18, with no in between, seems kind of rough.

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An ad for this came through my Facebook feed around 10:30 last night.  My first thought was, awesome!  I love Diamond products, I own diamond products.  I didn't check out the specs until this morning though.  One inch thick padding plus the plates makes this thicker than my current Diamond softshell CP.  The padding looks frumpy and un-breathable.  It appears to be similar to the Wilson's line but I would think that they would want to separate themselves by having a more updated look.  The pads may not be any worse than the Schutt or the All Star but it looks thick and hot to me.  And it doesn't say that you separate the plates for cleaning either.  Do those bicep pads look horrendous to anyone else?  They could lower the price if they just left them off. They look like a complete afterthought.  As does the harness.  For a CP at this price range, that harness won't do at all.  I'm passing on that alone. Even if the pads were equal to the Schutt, it is still 10 dollars more than the Schutt with a weak harness.  And that's with the $20 introductory discount.  The "one size fits all" line is not a good selling point.  People want a more custom fit now-a-days.  Even if it is just advertising jargon.  

I always wondered why Diamond didn't have a hard shell model.  Maybe this is why.    

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We put this into replay. Length is:

13 inches (not 13.5) without extension.

4 inches (not 4.5) on the extension.

We have some worn shots in development with and without the extension going up this week. Stay tuned.

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On 10/18/2018 at 10:13 AM, ofhs93 said:

It's pretty obvious that they are going after the West Vest crowd with this CP.

They're not just going after the West Vest crowd... they copied (I'll use the term "China-fied") the WestVest Platinum!

The Platinum specifically. Look at it – the same layout of the chest piece with the center sternum plate attached and flanked by pectoral-to-shoulder arch plates. The same shoulder pauldrons and ailettes ("gap plates"). Same T-hook securing parts. Same open-cell – the antiquated, dreaded sofa-cushion – foam vest. Same (or damn similar) harness. And it's even in the same color!

And you can't even get the foam vest separated (easily) from the carapace plates! They're riveted together! Why? Oh, you'll love why – because the velcro tabs through the carapace plates method, thus allowing you to separate the vest from the carapace, is the bloody patent that Wilson holds!

Could we get the plates and vest separated? Surely, if you've got a drill to kill the rivets and then replace them with Chicago Screws.

I do commend Diamond (with a courtesy golf-clap) regarding a few things. First, the unit appears to be narrower, along with being more form fitting because of the articulated carapace plates. That main transverse seam, instead of being arbitrarily straight across like the Platinum, looks intentional and planned. Call me crazy, but I have a hunch that this is the first real step at designing a hardshell CP for a female umpire. Consider that this thing is not being offered in 2-3 various sizes, but merely one size. Diamond does cater more to the softball crowd than the baseball crowd, after all.

Second, Diamond attached and included a plated abdomen extension – an appealing accessory part that Wilson has utterly neglected to put, or even make allowance for, on their Platinum. The included bicep guards are also a nice Value Added Feature (VAF). Most of us "hardcore" umpires have (at least been told) to "suck it up" and deal with arm and abdomen hits. Some of us just take them as they come. I myself acknowledge their benefit on CPs like this, including my much-loved Schutt/Adams XV-HDX, but I myself would still leave them off – to each their own. But if it helps to alleviate amateur umpires' fears, and keep them more protected and engaged with umpiring, such that they aren't discouraged by umpiring and opt to leave, citing the risks and pains, then let's heap on all the extra guards possible! We need more umpires!

will never ridicule or demean an umpire for wanting to attach an abdomen guard extension, or wear bicep guards, on their CP. I will chortle and deride anyone who wears a CP – especially a Wilson – incorrectly, drooping down like a shop apron so as to protect their tummy. You fool! Why didn't you get a CP that offers an extension to begin with??!! Oh, because that's not what the Big Leaguers wear on TV??!! Oh, because your association evaluator / trainer / poobah harumphed and said, "This Wilson is all ya need!"??!!

Anyway, thirdly, Diamond was also so kind and smart to leave off that stupid, asinine, unnecessary billow pad!!! About time someone used their grey matter.

The cost is somewhat appealing, but still not differential enough to cause me to leave my Schutt. Especially when the foam vest is still archaic sofa-cushion foam, and cannot be (easily) removed.

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On 10/18/2018 at 7:06 PM, conbo61 said:

Trying to figure out how to remove the padding to wash it.  Looks like there is some sort of hook on the inside.

You don't. Its riveted clean through. The black "hooks" you're seeing on the inside are polyurethane "bumpers" covering the rivets so that A) your shirts don't get snagged on a rivet burr, and B) so the rivets don't blatantly corrode from all your sweat. Many CPs have these, including the first Schutt AiR Flex I. 

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1 hour ago, MadMax said:

because the velcro tabs through the carapace plates method, thus allowing you to separate the vest from the carapace, is the bloody patent that Wilson holds!

How much longer does Wilson own the rights to this? It was my understanding that patents ran out after 20 years. Isn't that about how old the Wilson West Vest is? I'm just picturing a magical world where any company can use velcro tabs to attach plates to chest protectors and we umpires can live happily ever after.

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Diamond could have  used a full velcro attachment ala Douglas and not infringed on Wilson's patent and probably made this new cp more desirable. I'll stick with my older Douglas and Champion with the removable padding. 

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4 hours ago, grk17 said:

How much longer does Wilson own the rights to this? It was my understanding that patents ran out after 20 years. Isn't that about how old the Wilson West Vest is? I'm just picturing a magical world where any company can use velcro tabs to attach plates to chest protectors and we umpires can live happily ever after.

Right.  How does Champion get to do it again?

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6 hours ago, acpar72 said:

Right.  How does Champion get to do it again?

If I had to venture a "professional speculation", I'd say they either have a license / waiver from Wilson, or they just defy / ignore it, because Champion isn't a direct rival to Wilson in the arena it matters – football. Champion doesn't have a presence in football, while Wilson still has a toehold, with its chief rivals Riddell, Schutt, Douglas, and All-American. So, with Riddell, Schutt and Douglas squashing Wilson in football, they get their revenge in baseball.

Champion's not worth the court filing fees.

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3 hours ago, MadMax said:

If I had to venture a "professional speculation", I'd say they either have a license / waiver from Wilson, or they just defy / ignore it, because Champion isn't a direct rival to Wilson in the arena it matters – football. Champion doesn't have a presence in football, while Wilson still has a toehold, with its chief rivals Riddell, Schutt, Douglas, and All-American. So, with Riddell, Schutt and Douglas squashing Wilson in football, they get their revenge in baseball.

Champion's not worth the court filing fees.

Actually other than making the actual footballs and some accessories (tees, brushes, gloves), Wilson doesn't have much of a presence left on the gridiron themselves. I find it interesting they were able to patent the "velcro through plastic" attachment system for their umpire gear when it's hardly unique on the football side. Riddell and Douglas both use that same system on football shoulder pads, the others might as well. I guess the different sport makes a difference in the patent process.

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5 hours ago, Maineac said:

Wilson doesn't have much of a presence left on the gridiron themselves.

That wasn’t always the case. 20-30 years ago, when the WestVest was in its infancy, Wilson had a significant presence in football, alongside Bike (who partnered with Adams), Riddell, Douglas, All-American and Schutt. Football was becoming a cash cow, and while the production of new gear every year was the thing to do, All-American really doubled down and established that it was lucrative to refresh and recertify gear, especially for small colleges, high schools, and youth programs.

Shops nationwide formed a network of rejuvenating equipment for football, hockey, baseball, and a variety of other team sports. As is the case today, the majority of it was fueled by football. Baseball, on the other hand, has always been very frugal (almost miserly) in its expenditure on protective gear, since only 1 of the fielders needs it, and only 4-5 batting helmets are necessary. So, if you as an umpire, already operating under a budget, needed to clean and rejuvenate your gear, and had to take it to a shop to do so, you’d be a bit miffed and put-out, right? Well, what if you could take the gear apart, and clean it yourself? You’d prefer that, wouldn’t you?

And that’s where the patent drops into the game. If you notice, the Riddell Power, All-American CP, and the Wilson WestVest Gold all look remarkably similar, but the WestVest has that Velcro tab fastening System patented. I’m sure Wilson was grinning ear to ear, envisioning mighty Riddell and All-American having to grovel and pay licensing fees on each and every CP they wanted to have that system on. I don’t know the details, but at some point, Riddell and All-American just gave up on baseball and consigned themselves to football, while Douglas was restricted (? don’t know for certain) to their established design using “floating” plates with Velcro backing.

If I was to investigate and research deeper, I might be able to link the patent and the exclusive-MLB supplier relationship Wilson has/had. During that heady time, remember that Riddell had the exclusive-NFL supplier contract with “Lord Football”, and perhaps Riddell had to decide to let Wilson have the less-lucrative baseball.

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On 10/22/2018 at 6:39 PM, grk17 said:

How much longer does Wilson own the rights to this? It was my understanding that patents ran out after 20 years. Isn't that about how old the Wilson West Vest is? I'm just picturing a magical world where any company can use velcro tabs to attach plates to chest protectors and we umpires can live happily ever after.

Patent filed April 10, 1995. Patent issued July 2, 1996. Utility patent, of which this is one, are protected for 20 years from date of filing.

And of course that means Greg Bonin's utility patent for 'Rain Out' and Ed Hickox's utility patent for an 'indicator' are still protected.

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50 minutes ago, dumbdumb said:

Patent filed April 10, 1995. Patent issued July 2, 1996.

Thanks for finding this... Even when I have been my most adamant and dogmatic that the WestVest hasn't changed in 15+ years, I had a shred of uncertainty. This seals it. The Sofa Cushion hasn't changed in 23 years. Yeeks. 

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1 hour ago, dumbdumb said:

Patent filed April 10, 1995. Patent issued July 2, 1996. Utility patent, of which this is one, are protected for 20 years from date of filing.

And of course that means Greg Bonin's utility patent for 'Rain Out' and Ed Hickox's utility patent for an 'indicator' are still protected.

So the patent protection has expired then. So doesn’t that mean that any company can now produce chest protectors that use Velcro tabs? 

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