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jjskitours

Passing a runner

Question

No outs, R1 stealing on the pitch. The batter hits a line shot toward F6. R1 sees it so he stops and runs full speed back to 1st. F6 unintentionally drops the ball which R1 didn't see. R1 overruns 1st as BR crosses 1st base. F6 threw to F4 and umpire called R1 out on force out. Correct or is this a case of passing runners and BR out with force being removed and R1 entitled to 1st base.

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If B/R just over-ran first base, he didn't pass the runner - the call is correct (R1 overrunning the base doesn't/shouldn't matter)

If B/R rounded first in a move towards second, he did, and he should be out, and R1 on first.

Unless the force happened before the pass.

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From the 2013 Wendelstedt Rules Interpretation Manual (p. 161):

“Passing by a runner occurs when a following runner completely passes (with his core body) a preceding runner while running along the baselines. It does not matter which runner actually does the passing, only that they physically passed one another.”

Then the manual includes 8 drawings of what is considered passing or not passing. Apparently, the key to determine passing is whether it happens along the base paths. There is not a drawing depicting a BR and a R1 but there is one showing an R3 returning to third base and going past third toward the left field foul pole. Simultaneously, an R2 pulls into third base and the caption tells us that is not considered a passing. The manual states that, “even though R3 completely passed R2 on his return, it was not to the outside of the R2 and not around the bases.”

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1 hour ago, Senor Azul said:

From the 2013 Wendelstedt Rules Interpretation Manual (p. 161):

“Passing by a runner occurs when a following runner completely passes (with his core body) a preceding runner while running along the baselines. It does not matter which runner actually does the passing, only that they physically passed one another.”

Then the manual includes 8 drawings of what is considered passing or not passing. Apparently, the key to determine passing is whether it happens along the base paths. There is not a drawing depicting a BR and a R1 but there is one showing an R3 returning to third base and going past third toward the left field foul pole. Simultaneously, an R2 pulls into third base and the caption tells us that is not considered a passing. The manual states that, “even though R3 completely passed R2 on his return, it was not to the outside of the R2 and not around the bases.”

Did I see somewhere that the 3B scenario got changed to it is a pass, or am I dreaming?

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40 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

Did I see somewhere that the 3B scenario got changed to it is a pass, or am I dreaming?

I was just thinking the same thing. I think it happened after it occurred in an MLB game. 

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It turns out that you’re both right about that—great memories and nice catch! Here are the two plays leading to the rule change and the new rule--

7/1/2015 In the bottom of the eighth in Queens, Mets pinch hitter Darrell Ceciliani missed the pitch on a squeeze play. Ruben Tejeda was run back towards 3B by catcher Miguel Montero. Tejeda ran past 3B and Montero tagged Daniel Murphy, who had advanced from 2B and was standing on 3B when tagged. Since Tejada was not on the bag, Murphy was safe. Tejada was tagged while standing behind the bag and was out. 3B umpire Chris Guccione had called Murphy out but then reversed himself and told Murphy to stay on the bag. The umpires huddled and upheld the calls. This was not a traditional passing the runner but was strange enough to include here.

4/6/2018 - In the bottom of the 7th, the Yankees had Giancarlo Stanton on third and Gary Sanchez on first with one out when Neil Walker hit a weak grounder back to the pitcher. Stanton got in a run down between home and third long enough for Sanchez to reach third. As Orioles catcher Caleb Joseph ran Stanton back toward third, Stanton ran past the bag down the line a bit without being tagged. Joseph then tagged Sanchez who was standing on third and went on to tag Stanton who had turned into foul territory. Stanton was ruled out and Sanchez safe. Orioles manager Buck Showalter came out questioning the ruling saying that Sanchez should also be out since he had passed Stanton once Stanton ran behind the base. The umpires huddled and did not change the call. Later they admitted that they were wrong. After the similar play on 7/1/2015, which is described above, rule 5.09(b)(9) was put in place saying the runner who reached third was out for passing the runner who was on third and that runner, Stanton in this case, was entitled to third if he could get back to the bag before being tagged out. This should have been an inning ending double play. Showalter protested the game, but since the Orioles won 7-3 in 14 innings, the protest was withdrawn.

2018 OBR Rule 5.09(b)(9) Comment: A runner may be deemed to have passed a preceding (i.e., lead) runner based on his actions or the actions of a preceding runner. PLAY—Runners on second base and third base with one out. The runner from third base (i.e., the lead runner) makes an advance toward home and is caught in a rundown between third base and home plate. Believing the lead runner will be tagged out, the runner at second base (i.e., the trailing runner) advances to third base. Before being tagged, the lead runner runs back to and beyond third base toward left field. At this time, the trailing runner has passed the lead runner as a result of the lead runner’s actions. As a result, the trailing runner is out and third base is unoccupied. The lead runner is entitled to third base if he returns to touch it before he is out, see Rule 5.06(a)(1), unless he is declared out for abandoning the bases.

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These scenarios at 3rd base are nice, but I don’t believe in the OP that the preceding runner, namely R1 was entitled to 1st base, but rather was forced to second. Therefore, would it be correct that BR is safe at first and R1 out on the force at second and No passing the runner violation.

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1 hour ago, jjskitours said:

These scenarios at 3rd base are nice, but I don’t believe in the OP that the preceding runner, namely R1 was entitled to 1st base, but rather was forced to second. Therefore, would it be correct that BR is safe at first and R1 out on the force at second and No passing the runner violation.

The question is whether the scenario that happened at third base can happen at first base - I'm not sure it can, though I'd wonder what happened if R1 rounded first and ran towards home..."travesty of game"?

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Gil Imber of Close Call Sports analyzed the Stanton/Sanchez play on April 7, 2018. The article is titled O’s Lodge Protest Over Runners Passing Rule Application. He used the following definition as a basis for that analysis--

From the 2015 MLBUM (section 13, p. 8):  A runner is considered to have passed a base if he has both feet on the ground beyond the back edge of the base or beyond the edge of the base in the direction to which he is advancing.

Applying that definition to your scenario, Mr. jjskitours, the lead runner designated as R1 definitely passed first base on his return. Of course, the trail runner in your scenario, the BR, has the right to overrun first base in running out his batted ball. He did everything according to the rules but if we apply rule 5.09(b)(9) Comment the trail runner became liable to be called out by the actions of the lead runner--

2018 OBR Rule 5.09(b)(9) Comment: A runner may be deemed to have passed a preceding (i.e., lead) runner based on his actions or the actions of a preceding runner…

When R1 the lead runner runs back to and beyond first base, at that point, the trailing runner (the BR) has passed the lead runner because of the lead runner’s actions. As a result, the trailing runner is out and first base is unoccupied. The lead runner is entitled to first base if he returns to touch it before he is out.

 

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