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TB24

Interference on Batter?

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I was working a Pony Mustang game, and there was a runner on second base. A passed ball occurred and the runner went to third base. The catcher tried to throw down and the ball went into left field. The left fielder then overthrew the third baseman and the runner decided to run home. The ball was at the backstop where the catcher decided to get it, and throw to the pitcher now covering home plate. Here’s the catch: the batter had not moved from the batters box at all, he was a statue. The catcher and pitcher covering home obviously had to move in order to not hit the batter, but the batter made no contact with his runner, the ball, nor the defensive team. Is this interference? I called the runner safe and the play stood.

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1st question, did the batter standing at home plate AT ALL hinder or impede the fielders? If so, and since he is just standing there when the play is happening, I would be inclined to rule in favor of the defense. I would have interference.

Once F2 makes his throw, he no longer "owns the space he is in" baring that he does nothing to hinder or impede F2's throw. Once that happens, his one job in our eyes, is to get the hell out of the way.

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He did hinder the defense, but I was torn because he did not move at all, and I know if the throw was just to third, the batter would have been in legal position, but since the play was a continuation of another play, does he lose the right to his position in the batters box?

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37 minutes ago, TB24 said:

He did hinder the defense, but I was torn because he did not move at all, and I know if the throw was just to third, the batter would have been in legal position, but since the play was a continuation of another play, does he lose the right to his position in the batters box?

Yes. Because he is no longer attempting to strike a pitch... because he already had the chance.

37 minutes ago, TB24 said:

He did not make contact with the ball or the defense though.

Contact doesnt matter. If F2 hesitates at all. Or F1 flinches at all. I'm getting interference. 

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47 minutes ago, TB24 said:

He did hinder the defense, but I was torn because he did not move at all, and I know if the throw was just to third, the batter would have been in legal position, 

No, he wouldn't have.

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14 minutes ago, BT_Blue said:

Yes. Because he is no longer attempting to strike a pitch... because he already had the chance.

Contact doesnt matter. If F2 hesitates at all. Or F1 flinches at all. I'm getting interference. 

Thanks BT_Blue

5 minutes ago, Matt said:

No, he wouldn't have.

Yes, if it was just a normal throw down to third base, he is entitled to that place.

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13 minutes ago, TB24 said:

Yes, if it was just a normal throw down to third base, he is entitled to that place.

Not on a passed ball. Once he has time to react to the play, he must vacate any space necessary to avoid interfering with a throw or player involved in a play.

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1 minute ago, Matt said:

Not on a passed ball. Once he has time to react to the play, he must vacate any space necessary to avoid interfering with a throw or player involved in a play.

Ya I got that, we started talking about separate things. Thanks 

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1 minute ago, TB24 said:

Ya I got that, we started talking about separate things. Thanks 

I get where the separation happened. And it's moot--the same point still stands, since he's a batter, not a runner. INT.

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11 hours ago, TB24 said:

He did not make contact with the ball or the defense though.

Neither of those is required.

The batter is guilty of "willful indifference" -- INT.

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On 9/24/2018 at 6:26 PM, TB24 said:

He did hinder the defense,

Ok... we can stop right here. Not sure how I missed it the first go round.

But the MINUTE he hinders the defense's ability to make a play, you now have interference.

Now comes the fun part. The one I'm not totally sure of. Since we now have interference on the batter for being a dumb ass and not moving. Would the out be on the batter? Or would we call the runner trying to score (if memory serves that would be R2) for the illegal act by his teammate.

I am leaning towards getting the runner since that would hurt more.

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Just now, TB24 said:

Would the runner return to the last touched  base at time of throw and the batter would be out? 

That is more or less what I was asking about. I would lean towards calling R2 (they runner attempting to score) out for the batter's interference with the play.

A) it hurts the team that screwed up more to call the runner out.

B) otherwise teams would just tell their batters to get in the way if there will be an obvious out at home.

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2 hours ago, BT_Blue said:

That is more or less what I was asking about. I would lean towards calling R2 (they runner attempting to score) out for the batter's interference with the play.

A) it hurts the team that screwed up more to call the runner out.

B) otherwise teams would just tell their batters to get in the way if there will be an obvious out at home.

Isn't this spelled out in the rulebook? Runner is out with 1 or 0 outs, batter is out with 2 outs (no run scores) and inning is over

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4 hours ago, Gfoley4 said:

Isn't this spelled out in the rulebook? Runner is out with 1 or 0 outs, batter is out with 2 outs (no run scores) and inning is over

You're missing a provision, namely the one they referenced.

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Official Interpretation:  Wendelstedt:  “When a pitch gets away from the catcher, if the batter remains in the box and makes no other movement, he cannot be called for interference.” (email to Childress 7/7/14)

Note 239: Many umpires believe once a pitch passes the plate, the batter is no longer a “batter” and hence must leave his box. HW points out that the rules say a batter remains a batter “until he is put out or becomes a runner.” (5.04c) Unless the pitch is strike three or ball four, the batter has a perfect right to the box. Umpires should, according to the Wendelstedt staff, call batter interference when the batter backs out of the box and gets hit by the throw rather than any hindrance occurring because he didn’t vacate the box.

Play P378 (2013 WRIM, p. 242):  R3, one out, 2-2 count. The next pitch is in the dirt and gets away from the catcher. As R3 charges home, the catcher retrieves the ball and throws it to the pitcher covering the plate. The batter remained in the batter’s box and (a) did not make any other movement, but is accidentally hit with the throw allowing R3 to score; (b) turns away and ducks when he sees the throw, but is still accidentally hit with it.

Ruling:  In (a), the umpire should signal that it’s nothing when the batter is hit, and R3’s run scores. In (b), the umpire should call interference and allow the play to continue. When R3 is not retired immediately, he should call time and call out R3. The batter remains at bat with a 3-2 count.

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110%--that is an impressive statistic and one I did not know. So thanks for that—always glad to learn. I am curious, though, about where it came from. Could you give us a citation, please? And while you’re at it, could you also tell us where it says that a batter can be charged with “willful indifference.”

The OP stated that the batter “had not moved from the batters box at all, he was a statue.” So, if that it is the case does it affect the percentage you quoted? Perhaps down to 109.99%?

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Mr. TB24, I agree with you on your assertion that if the play had just been a throw to third base from the catcher that the batter was in a legal position. PONY League uses OBR but a FED case book play says it best--

7.3.5 Situation E:  With less than two outs, R2 and B2 at the plate, R2 attempts to steal third. In the process, B2, who bats right-handed, after swinging or not swinging at the pitch (a) makes no attempt to get out of the way of F2 throwing to third or (b) is unable is unable to make an attempt to get out of the way of F2 throwing to third. As a result, F2 cannot make a play on the runner. Is B2 out, and must R2 return to second? Ruling:  B2 is not guilty of interference in (a) or (b). B2 is entitled to his position in the batter’s box and is not subject to being penalized for interference unless he moves or re-establishes his position after F2 has received the pitch, which then prevents F2 from attempting to play on a runner. Failing to move so F2 can make a throw is not batter interference.

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Yes, Mr. ousafe, you’re right about the Little League rule. In addition, FED has the same rule that can be found in their rule book at 7-3-5d. The NCAA has an interpretation that says the same thing found in the 2016 BRD.

LL rule 6.06 A batter is out for illegal action when –

(c) interfering with the catcher’s fielding or throwing by:

failing to make a reasonable effort to vacate a congested area when there is a throw to home plate and there is time for the batter to move away.
EXCEPTION: Batter is not out if any runner attempting to advance is retired, or if runner trying to score is called out for batter’s interference.

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What am I missing?  

In the OP it was two errant throws, not a passed ball or wild pitch. 

 

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Well, Mr. Tborze, let’s review the original post to see if you missed anything. The second sentence was, “A passed ball (emphasis added) occurred and the runner went to third base.” Please note that I copied and pasted that text and did not input it so there is no new error introduced.

Also note that the original poster, Mr. TB24, did not tell us where the pitched ball wound up. Did the ball roll away or was it just dropped by the catcher and it remained at his feet? Either way the catcher was still able to make a throw to third to try to put out R2 (so it must have remained nearby). His throw was errant and the left fielder retrieved it and then made another errant throw that went to the backstop. So there were two errant throws as you stated but there was a "passed ball" to start the whole play—at the very least it was an uncaught pitch.

A later post from Mr. Matt was a reaction to that "passed ball" element of the scenario. In fact, he contended that the batter was already guilty of interference because he did not move out of the way after the passed ball. Then I posted trying to refute that assertion. I would add that the best thing the batter could have done at that point was to remain motionless in the box because the batter is obligated to avoid making any movement which interferes.

The question remains, though, should the batter have moved out of the way for the second throw and the potential third throw? What do you think?

 

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9 hours ago, Senor Azul said:

Well, Mr. Tborze, let’s review the original post to see if you missed anything. The second sentence was, “A passed ball (emphasis added) occurred and the runner went to third base.” Please note that I copied and pasted that text and did not input it so there is no new error introduced.

Also note that the original poster, Mr. TB24, did not tell us where the pitched ball wound up. Did the ball roll away or was it just dropped by the catcher and it remained at his feet? Either way the catcher was still able to make a throw to third to try to put out R2 (so it must have remained nearby). His throw was errant and the left fielder retrieved it and then made another errant throw that went to the backstop. So there were two errant throws as you stated but there was a "passed ball" to start the whole play—at the very least it was an uncaught pitch.

A later post from Mr. Matt was a reaction to that "passed ball" element of the scenario. In fact, he contended that the batter was already guilty of interference because he did not move out of the way after the passed ball. Then I posted trying to refute that assertion. I would add that the best thing the batter could have done at that point was to remain motionless in the box because the batter is obligated to avoid making any movement which interferes.

The question remains, though, should the batter have moved out of the way for the second throw and the potential third throw? What do you think?

 

Thank You for clarifying!  

All rule sets seem to emphasize "after the pitch", not subsequent plays after the pitch. I agree that the batter has his right to remain in the box on the initial play, because any other movement can result in INT.  I'm not sure I would want to stand there, if I had time to vacate, as my teammate is barreling down third.  

OBR seems to be different, from what you quoted, in that the "vacate if there is time" element isn't mentioned.  But again, the play presented in the OBR interp was an immediate play following the pitch.  Is the thought that because the plays were made following the pitch, the batter still has a right to be in the box?  

For the OP, I agree with INT. OR willful indifference;) 

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