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dumbdumb

Walk off balk

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That's awfully technical. I wouldn't support calling start/stop that tightly in a HS game I was observing.

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Wonder what it would be for the D3,2,1 guys on here. Doesn't mean all MLBU would call it either. May be too technical for some of them also, or it might get by some of the ones that would call this a balk,  every now and then.

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According to the video, U1 (Fletcher) called it.  I would have thought it was called by U3, HP, or even U2.  The replay showed one angle that Fletcher would have had, and from that viewpoint, I don't see how he could have seen it.   

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1 hour ago, scubabob34 said:

According to the video, U1 (Fletcher) called it.  I would have thought it was called by U3, HP, or even U2.  The replay showed one angle that Fletcher would have had, and from that viewpoint, I don't see how he could have seen it.   

Agreed. But we have had other balks (and maybe they were right or wrong by video on the balk) called from a certain position and wondered how the balk was seen from that position and not from the other positions.

Now, was this a balk or not. Or, is this like a call stands situation? 

I was just trying to find out if what we see in the video is a balk, and if this is a balk, which Leagues is this a balk (High School, Juco, D3,2,1, MiLB, and MLB).

Also, if this is not a 100% balk in any of the Leagues, and could go either way as a judgment call, that is fine also. Just trying to help out younger guys at different levels. I would also be fine with a supervisor saying it is a technical balk/no balk, but we do/do not want that called a balk/no balk in our League, if that is how the supervisor wants it handled.

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41 minutes ago, dumbdumb said:

Agreed. But we have had other balks (and maybe they were right or wrong by video on the balk) called from a certain position and wondered how the balk was seen from that position and not from the other positions.

Now, was this a balk or not. Or, is this like a call stands situation? 

I was just trying to find out if what we see in the video is a balk, and if this is a balk, which Leagues is this a balk (High School, Juco, D3,2,1, MiLB, and MLB).

Also, if this is not a 100% balk in any of the Leagues, and could go either way as a judgment call, that is fine also. Just trying to help out younger guys at different levels. I would also be fine with a supervisor saying it is a technical balk/no balk, but we do/do not want that called a balk/no balk in our League, if that is how the supervisor wants it handled.

This is a balk at the MLB level if you watch him closely and ascribe to  intent to deceive and maybe have intel to watch for this. I watched him on MLBtv. He comes set at his chest. His TOP starts with a slight drop of his hands together about an inch or two. You have to get paranoid and suspect that with R3 the pitcher is trying to get him leaning with the hands drop and then can pick from his step off. He did not step off in the inning until he had R3. I would not balk this at any other level where you could not ascribe such deceit to the pitcher. I've seen a few MLB balks of pitchers stepping off that we would not call at our levels. Most of us need elephant balks to balk in a run. MLB umps notch balked in runs on their bedpost.

Edited to add: I don't know if F5 was going in and out during the previous pitch but it looks like there was something up the way he was moving.

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If I see it, I'm calling this in any HS or college game that I'm working.

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4 hours ago, scubabob34 said:

According to the video, U1 (Fletcher) called it.  I would have thought it was called by U3, HP, or even U2.  The replay showed one angle that Fletcher would have had, and from that viewpoint, I don't see how he could have seen it.   

Lasik surgery.

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I saw this live. I had a balk. I saw a stop, then movement of the hands and legs  before the stepoff. I'd like to think I get this in a Varsity HS game. That said, I've seen plenty of "lower level varsity" (NJ doesn't officially have rankings of HS divisions) ,where I'd let this go without a second thought.

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56 minutes ago, Richvee said:

I saw this live. I had a balk. I saw a stop, then movement of the hands and legs  before the stepoff. I'd like to think I get this in a Varsity HS game. That said, I've seen plenty of "lower level varsity" (NJ doesn't officially have rankings of HS divisions) ,where I'd let this go without a second thought.

Because it's a balk.  Good call.  As soon as he moved his hands from the set position he is committed to pitch.  Especially at the MLB level.  I'm in agreement with what you are saying.

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So, for the most part, we have decided that unless we are asleep at the wheel, this should be called a balk for anything above lower level High School School, and a supervisor has not told us, not to call this a balk.

(whatever lower level is, and I am not about to tell a coach his High School is lower level, I will just assume he knows his school is lower level, if I do not make this video example a balk call, and he wouldn't ask questions anyway).

Just trying to get this straight for the young guys trying to learn and move up, and not be considered a jack wagon looking for trouble if they call this a balk.

 

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56 minutes ago, dumbdumb said:

So, for the most part, we have decided that unless we are asleep at the wheel, this should be called a balk for anything above lower level High School School, and a supervisor has not told us, not to call this a balk.

(whatever lower level is, and I am not about to tell a coach his High School is lower level, I will just assume he knows his school is lower level, if I do not make this video example a balk call, and he wouldn't ask questions anyway).

Just trying to get this straight for the young guys trying to learn and move up, and not be considered a jack wagon looking for trouble if they call this a balk.

 

When you see a pitcher, let’s say in the set, you check his stop, sometimes it’s problematic. So you decide what is his stop. Then you see him start his motion with a little hand drop and some leg motion with or just after the hand motion. You now have TOP. Then that pitcher steps off at any level with a slight movement but keeping the hands together. IMHO you have to judge an intent to deceive or a spastic move. I think U1 was aware of the MO for this pitcher. His three partners were not and did not even echo the balk. Nor did a bunch of posters on this thread. If that pitcher split his hands and feinted a throw while stepping off no one would balk it as CCS alludes to in their article. While @grayhawk would balk this if he saw it I would ask if he meant that he saw the pitcher fake his TOP and then step off. I would bet that none of you have an MLB subscription that allows you to see this pitcher in action prior to this pitch. Without that knowledge of how this pitcher starts his delivery I don’t know if we would balk another pitcher unless we judged it to be a TOP and not a spastic step off. 

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3 hours ago, goody14 said:

Not sure if this will work, but I saw this on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1031076855984447488

R1 and the first base coach saw it, pointed, and U1 grabbed it. There must have been something from that angle.

This video looks like the pitcher has already disengaged from the rubber.

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7 hours ago, goody14 said:

Not sure if this will work, but I saw this on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1031076855984447488

R1 and the first base coach saw it, pointed, and U1 grabbed it. There must have been something from that angle.

Kyle Seager at the plate also pointed it out.

Also, you can log me in as one of the "yeh... that's a balk" guys.

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So, in the video you can clearly see R1 and R2 proceed to their awarded bases before joining the celebration - both doing so after R3 touched home.

I'm assuming this wasn't necessary (though a good habit) - even if both were appealed out for not touching the base (or at some point abandoning), that would have occurred after the run scored, and with no force it's moot, correct?

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An interesting twist to the oft-asked "does the run count" question we get so often -- but the answer is the same.  ;)

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