Is the play dead?

[Guest Brandon]

I was called out at first base because of a catch. I ran through the bag anyway and then turned into fair territory and argued the call. Another umpire overturned the catch, but the pitcher walked over and tagged me while arguing the call. I was safe on first but the other team argued even if the catch wasn’t made, then I was tagged out. I argued the play was dead. What’s the proper call?

[BretMan]

Did an umpire ever call or signal "time" before you were tagged? If not, then the ball was still live. There's nothing about this play that would automatically make the ball dead.

[noumpere]

1) "Turning into fair territory" has nothing to do with it -- it's all whether you "made an attempt for second," and, that attempt can be as small as a step.

 

2) If a call is overturned, the umpires should "make it right" -- that includes NOT putting players on either side  in jeopardy fro something that (likely) wouldn'thave happend if the correct call had been made initially.  Here, as described, you should not be out after overrunning first (and, assuming there is no "rest of the story" from the defense).

[Replacematt]

5 minutes ago, noumpere said:

1) "Turning into fair territory" has nothing to do with it -- it's all whether you "made an attempt for second," and, that attempt can be as small as a step.

 

2) If a call is overturned, the umpires should "make it right" -- that includes NOT putting players on either side  in jeopardy fro something that (likely) wouldn'thave happend if the correct call had been made initially.  Here, as described, you should not be out after overrunning first (and, assuming there is no "rest of the story" from the defense).

There's also the issue of not returning immediately to the base...

[CJK]

36 minutes ago, Guest Brandon said:

I was called out at first base because of a catch. I ran through the bag anyway and then turned into fair territory and argued the call. Another umpire overturned the catch, but the pitcher walked over and tagged me while arguing the call. I was safe on first but the other team argued even if the catch wasn’t made, then I was tagged out. I argued the play was dead. What’s the proper call?

Why so much arguing?  That doesn't sound like a fun league at all.

[Richvee]

Consider yourself fortunate you were only out on the play and not ejected for arguing.  

[lawump]

Guess you learned a lesson about arguing.  That lesson being: let your head coach/manager do the arguing.  If you want to go back to the base, stand there and wait for the result of the argument...that's fine, but let your coach do the arguing. 

Word to the wise (coming from someone who has umpired everything from LL to MiLB): almost nothing good comes to a player when he argues.

[Guest Brandon]

I need to clarify. This is very much a rec league where the “umpires” are made up of members of other teams in the league. Many are not read up on rules. Hence the argument.

This was a ball hit to SS which was not actually caught. It was dropped. I ran through first and the first base “ump” called it out when we wasn’t the closest. There’s also a rule about runners advancing when the pitcher has the ball in this league. There were no other base runners. I turned in an attempt to appeal the call to the other umpire. Pitcher had the ball and walked over to tag me while this conversation was happening. Umpires got it right eventually. I just wanted to know the rule about it being a dead play at that time. The umpires probably should have called time. I should have done my questioning from the base. Obviously the arguing would not have been necessary with actual umpires. It’s just a mess. 30 teams in this league across the town on Sundays. They should spring for umpires. 

[ricka56]

4 minutes ago, Guest Brandon said:

They should spring for umpires. 

Depends on what the league is about. Its a rec-league. No one should get their panties in a twist over an incorrect call...crack open another beer and have fun. Umpires are needed to keep players from cheating in games that matter. If the outcome of the game (and plays) doesn't matter, why incur the expense. 

[maven]

Sounds like it might be worthwhile paying for real umpires.