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Jimurray

Coach Assist on a forced runner

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So we have this FED interp,  "SITUATION 11: On a base hit to the outfield, the runner from third base comes home but misses touching home plate. The on-deck batter physically stops him and shoves him back to the plate, where he then touches it. RULING:Physical assistance by a teammate is not allowed unless both players are viable runners. The assisted runner is out and his run does not count. (2-21-1c, 5-1-2f, 3-2-2),"

and an MLB occurrence where a runner missed HP and was called out for coach assist. The runner now is out and cannot legally correct his miss even if he did get pushed back to the plate. But it appears FED and OBR/MLB doesn't require an appeal of missing HP to not score the run. 

What if we had bases loaded with 2 outs and an extra base hit. R3 scores while R2 misses 3B while rounding it and the coach physically grabs him to push him back to 2B. The ump calls R2 out for the third out. Do we require an appeal of the miss to unscore the run or do we consider it an out on a forced runner.

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A runner is considered to have touched the base when he passes it, until there's an appeal.

 

The out for assistance is not a force out.  If the defense appeals, it becomes a force out.

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9 minutes ago, noumpere said:

A runner is considered to have touched the base when he passes it, until there's an appeal.

 

The out for assistance is not a force out.  If the defense appeals, it becomes a force out.

FED calls the runner out and does not score the run  without an appeal at HP. I think the same thing happened in the MLB play. Are we treating HP different that the other bases? In most cases the physical assist is successful and the runner will have touched while he is out. Do we require the defense to know that that touch was not legal? 

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So this would be one of those rare “4th Out” calls?

The Rule has it that we (Umpires) call an Out for Assistance, but leave the ball Live (atypical for most HS calls). So, with it being 3rd Out, provided that R3 had crossed the HP prior to the Assistance on R2, that Run would score.

If however, the defense figures out the reason for the Assistance was the missed 3B (and that an Umpire saw it, too), the defense can just conduct a verbal Dead-ball appeal (these are Fed Rules, after all) and the Run is taken off the board... right?

So how do we convey this to the coach(es) and scorekeeper (in the most concise way possible)?

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1 hour ago, MadMax said:

So this would be one of those rare “4th Out” calls?

The Rule has it that we (Umpires) call an Out for Assistance, but leave the ball Live (atypical for most HS calls). So, with it being 3rd Out, provided that R3 had crossed the HP prior to the Assistance on R2, that Run would score.

If however, the defense figures out the reason for the Assistance was the missed 3B (and that an Umpire saw it, too), the defense can just conduct a verbal Dead-ball appeal (these are Fed Rules, after all) and the Run is taken off the board... right?

So how do we convey this to the coach(es) and scorekeeper (in the most concise way possible)?

If you are dealing with an MLB scorekeeper when the assist took place at HP you would not have to indicate anything. Watch the run get put up and then taken down just on the out for assist with no appeal: http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/9780550/v11487843/must-c-curious-morgan-out-at-home-for-contact

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