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Guest Rick

Attempt to go to 2nd

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Guest Rick

Batter hits ball.  Play at first base.  First Baseman in over-thrown and ball lands in foul territory.  Batter-runner makes a deliberate attempt to advance to second base but realizes he will not make it so he stops his attempt and walks back to first base.  However, batter-runner NEVER steps into fair territory while making his attempt to go to second base.  His attempt to advance to second base was done while remaining in foul territory.  On his way back to first base, while in foul territory, batter-runner is tagged by the first baseman.  Is the batter-runner:

1. Out because he made a deliberate attempt to go to 2nd base and was tagged out (albeit the attempt was made in foul territory), or

2. Safe because the attempt to go to 2nd base was not made while in fair territory, nor did he enter fair territory at any time, so the batter-runner can do whatever he chooses to do.  

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The same question (in a slightly different form) was asked here a couple of weeks ago.

It's a myth that if the player remains in foul territory he is protected; and it's a myth that if the player enters fair territory he's not protected.

It's a myth that the player must turn to the right to be protected; and it's a myth that if the player turns to the left he's not protected.

All that matters is "did he make an attempt" -- and that attempt can be as small as a jab-step, depending on the level.  And, it's umpire judgment.

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1 hour ago, GPblue said:

Never read in any rule book that a runner is safe in foul territory...except on a batted ball hitting him

Even then he might not be safe: that can leave a mark!

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The only thing fair or foul territory does is determine the status of a hit ball. Once the status of the ball is determined by either being touched, settled or passing a base fair or foul, the area we call fair/foul ground just becomes the field of play. 

So in your case, your runner while on the field of play, after making an attempt to advance to 2nd was tagged and ruled out by failing to be on the base at the time of the tag.

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7 hours ago, Guest Rick said:

Batter hits ball.  Play at first base.  First Baseman in over-thrown and ball lands in foul territory.  Batter-runner makes a deliberate attempt to advance to second base but realizes he will not make it so he stops his attempt and walks back to first base.  However, batter-runner NEVER steps into fair territory while making his attempt to go to second base.  His attempt to advance to second base was done while remaining in foul territory.  On his way back to first base, while in foul territory, batter-runner is tagged by the first baseman.  Is the batter-runner:

1. Out because he made a deliberate attempt to go to 2nd base and was tagged out (albeit the attempt was made in foul territory), or

2. Safe because the attempt to go to 2nd base was not made while in fair territory, nor did he enter fair territory at any time, so the batter-runner can do whatever he chooses to do.  

Even if number 2 were true (it isn't, as already stated by people smarter than I am), then you'd simply call the batter/runner out for not returning "immediately to the base".

Think of it another way...if number 2 were true, then what I'm going to do as a coach is teach my players to always overrun first base at a 45 or more degree angle...get as close to the fence as possible...and then, start running to second every time...and stop in foul territory.

I might entice a throw (and error)...I might draw the defense's attention away from the other base runners.

In short...I'd turn the game into a ridiculous display of stupidity, with a whole bunch of fake out scenarios that just waste everyone's time...and then a whole slough of new arguments around whether or not that runner entered fair territory.  "His foot touched the line"  "No it didn't - can you ask your partner...he had a better angle" - let alone the "returns immediately to the base"  angle.

And then the rule would be changed to reflect #1.

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