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ousafe

base award on ground rule double

Question

LL tournament.  R2 only.  Ground ball hits outside corner of 3rd base bag and bounces under a gate out of play.  Fair ball, ruled as a ground rule double.  R2 had not reached 3rd base when the ball went out of play.

What is the correct base award for R2?

In our case, R2 was awarded home.

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LL rule 7.05 Each runner including the batter-runner may, without liability to be put out, advance –

(f) two bases, if a fair ball bounces or is deflected into the stands outside the first or third base foul line; if it goes through or under a field fence; through or under a scoreboard; through or under shrubbery or vines on the fence; or if it sticks in such fence, scoreboard, shrubbery, or vines;

 

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Bumper sticker...

Youth sports would be best if played by orphans

 

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That is correct, all runners advance two bases. OBR 5.06(b)(4)(G).

BTW because this is in the actual rules it's not a "ground rule double" (just being overly technical).

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31 minutes ago, ousafe said:

LL tournament.  R2 only.  Ground ball hits outside corner of 3rd base bag and bounces under a gate out of play.  Fair ball, ruled as a ground rule double.  R2 had not reached 3rd base when the ball went out of play.

What is the correct base award for R2?

In our case, R2 was awarded home.

Just curious - was someone arguing that the batter gets two bases but the runners only get one base?   That would make life interesting for R1.   It would basically create a set of circumstances R2 only scores if R1 is present.

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12 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

Just curious - was someone arguing that the batter gets two bases but the runners only get one base?   That would make life interesting for R1.   It would basically create a set of circumstances R2 only scores if R1 is present.

The (incorrect) argument was that R2 should only advance as far as forced (so to third base only).

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4 hours ago, ousafe said:

The (incorrect) argument was that R2 should only advance as far as forced (so to third base only).

Wow....I hope it was more like a question and not an argument. No offense, but any level of coach, from 8u Daddy coach on up ought to know at least the basic rules of the game. And if they don't, learn alittle about the game before you try "coaching". If a coach with such little knowledge of the game had the audacity to argue with me over this, I'm not sure I'd be able to hold back uncontrollable laughter long enough to tell him to stop before he's "asked" to leave.

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Guest NJ Coach

Encountered what I thought was a dumb local ground rule in an 8u machine pitch tournament ....  if batted ball hits machine,  batter is awarded first base but baserunners only advance if forced.

Whereby, if only a runner on third base, he doesn't advance on a batted ball that hits the machine.  But if bases loaded, he does advance.  It seemed to me that theses should be ruled "ground rule singles" allowing every runner advance one base.

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1 hour ago, Guest NJ Coach said:

Encountered what I thought was a dumb local ground rule in an 8u machine pitch tournament ....  if batted ball hits machine,  batter is awarded first base but baserunners only advance if forced.

Whereby, if only a runner on third base, he doesn't advance on a batted ball that hits the machine.  But if bases loaded, he does advance.  It seemed to me that theses should be ruled "ground rule singles" allowing every runner advance one base.

It's 8-year old baseball.  It should be FUN.  Who the hell cares?  Thirty seconds after the game is over, the only thing the players are going to care about is where and when they are getting their ice cream!

(However, speaking from experience as an assignor of umpires...machine pitch causes more problems (in terms of arguments and ejections) than all other age groups combined.  That's an indictment of the coaches and parents (and possibly our society as a whole)).

(Guest NJ Coach:  This post is not an attack on you; its an attack on most travel ball parents.)

 

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2 hours ago, Guest NJ Coach said:

Encountered what I thought was a dumb local ground rule in an 8u machine pitch tournament ....  if batted ball hits machine,  batter is awarded first base but baserunners only advance if forced.

How is this “dumb” and “local”?

Extrapolate this... the machine is a (inorganic) participant on the baseball field, but is not a defensive player. The machine is positioned on the mound/center, obviously in front of the infielders. Hmm... what other baseball participant is positioned (typically) in front of the infielders, such that if a batted ball hits him, the ball is Dead, the BR is awarded 1B, and all other Runners stay, unless advanced by Force?

Yup, an Umpire.

I’m sure the adult feeding the machine is also subject to the same Rule. The rarity of the feeder getting hit is because he/she can react or move in time (usually) to avoid being hit. Thus, this “dumb local ground rule” isn’t local, and has precedent in the very Rules of baseball.

T-ball, machine pitch, coach pitch... all these should be done away with. Let kids below the age of 10 loose in a park or a big backyard, they figure it out just fine. I’ve seen better games of barefoot wiffleball played by a bunch of kids – boys and girls – in the grass, using their shoes as bases, than the U12, U13, and U14 games going on the quad fields on the other side of the fence.

Point is, parents wreck baseball for kids. Do the kids really care, or even remember an hour from now, whether or not they scored, or even how?

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Guest Nj Coach

Pitchers do not play behind the machine.  What would be the point of that ?  They play on the side.  The reason I didn''t think it was the fairest solution is bc IMO it shouldn't matter where the baserunners are on the hit.   This is no different than the OP's scenario...runners get what the batter gets...in this case a ground rule single. 

I do agree that parents often behave badly....but I think the manager almost always the source/reason.  The manager sets the tone.  Last night at my kid's 10u game the only ump (behind the plate) called the other team's R1 out at second on a steal attempt and may have gotten the call wrong.   The travel team's coach went nuts on the ump.   (Ump response was "then get second umpires for your games).   Then on a few close calls that went against this team later in the game several parents on this team harassed and heckled the ump loudly.  Ump then told that manager that if he couldn't control his parents the ump would end the game.

The parents fed off the travel manager's behavior.

 

 

 

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