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Guest Medford46

Follow through interference?

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Guest Medford46

In litttle league baseball, runner on 3rd, 1 out. Coaches have been warned about players throwing bats. Batter hits the ball through the hole, follow through hits catcher, then batter drops bat. Batter gets to first and run scores. Ump calls time, restricts batter to bench for remainder of the game and allows for a pinch runner. My argument was that he didn't throw the bat and it was the follow through. I was told it didn't matter. Did the ump make the right call? Is it more of a judgement call? My understanding is that the rules are different for a batter throwing the bat vs. hitting the catcher on the follow through.

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5 hours ago, Guest Medford46 said:

In litttle league baseball, runner on 3rd, 1 out. Coaches have been warned about players throwing bats. Batter hits the ball through the hole, follow through hits catcher, then batter drops bat. Batter gets to first and run scores. Ump calls time, restricts batter to bench for remainder of the game and allows for a pinch runner. My argument was that he didn't throw the bat and it was the follow through. I was told it didn't matter. Did the ump make the right call? Is it more of a judgement call? My understanding is that the rules are different for a batter throwing the bat vs. hitting the catcher on the follow through.

Ump made up rules.

Throwing is warn then eject. Throwing happens after the swing when the batter is discarding the bat. Eject happens only after a play completes.  Play does not stop. There is no restrict-to-bench in LL. 

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17 hours ago, Guest Medford46 said:

In litttle league baseball, runner on 3rd, 1 out. Coaches have been warned about players throwing bats. Batter hits the ball through the hole, follow through hits catcher, then batter drops bat. Batter gets to first and run scores. Ump calls time, restricts batter to bench for remainder of the game and allows for a pinch runner. My argument was that he didn't throw the bat and it was the follow through. I was told it didn't matter. Did the ump make the right call? Is it more of a judgement call? My understanding is that the rules are different for a batter throwing the bat vs. hitting the catcher on the follow through.

The batter has control of the bat and drops it after hitting the catcher - this is back swing only. I don't have anything at any level. Now if the play happens and a runner steals, then DB and runners return - no penalty on the hitter. The batter must control the bat, and seems to in this post.

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First, this cannot be “follow through interference” because the ball was put into play without involving the catcher.

We need to clean up some vernacular here... At these very junior levels of baseball, you will not see a thrown bat. You will see flung or slung bats – batters merely let go of the bat on the follow-through of their swing. Oddly, this rarely happens on a swing-and-a-miss, or even a Foul ball, but far more often on a ball put in play (which raises the suspicion that it’s lack of coaching or instruction; these kids don’t fling bats in a batting cage or during soft-toss). Of course, the bat sails past the catcher and umpire, or smacks against either one of them, and the umpire feels compelled to do something.

But there is no provision in the Rules to cover this – by stopping play, putting Runners back, or assessing Outs – other than (a) warning(s) and, if it warrants it, an Ejection. Again, to emphasize – an umpire should not (indeed, by rule, cannot) call the Batter-Runner Out!

So, the umpire in the OP was somewhat correct – he let play continue, and the results stand. Rather than Ejecting the Batter-Runner, he “restricted” him to the dugout – which, technically as @Rich Ives points out – doesn’t exist in LL, but I’m guessing the Umpire decided to use to soften the term and formality of an “Ejection”.

Coaches can be warned ad nauseum about flung bats, but it’s not going to do any good. Coaches have to identify those kids who are bat-flingers and actively reinforce that they must stop doing this. If you’re the parent of a bat-flinger, your kid should not have been called Out – but he cannot be coddled anymore on this. He has to be more disciplined in his control of his bat.

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We typically warn, then give the coach the option to restrict or have ejected. Meaning Timmy won't finish this game, but will work on not flinging the bat in the time leading up to their next game, which he'll be allowed to play. 

I normally only warn if the bat hits the catcher or myself. If it hits the backstop, I'll simply ask the batter to try not to do that. Although I did have one bat go thru the fence, knob side first. The barrel stopped it from continuing to the stands, but was very fortunate that nobody was hugging the fence at that time. 

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13 hours ago, Mister B said:

We typically warn, then give the coach the option to restrict or have ejected

Hopefully, this is a local rule during regular season???

If done during tournament play, you may force the team into a MPR violation.  If it warrants that much attention, eject.

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Guest Medford46

Wasn't sure everyone got the exact details. The batter had the bat in his hand the entire follow through, the bat hit the catcher, then he let go of the bat. The bat ended up on the ground right next to home plate. The bat didn't leave his hand until momentum had ceased.

 

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On 7/9/2018 at 4:56 PM, MadMax said:

Coaches can be warned ad nauseum about flung bats, but it’s not going to do any good.

Once action has relaxed, pick up the bat and fling it at the coach.

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On 7/9/2018 at 3:56 PM, MadMax said:

Coaches can be warned ad nauseum about flung bats, but it’s not going to do any good. Coaches have to identify those kids who are bat-flingers and actively reinforce that they must stop doing this. If you’re the parent of a bat-flinger, your kid should not have been called Out – but he cannot be coddled anymore on this. He has to be more disciplined in his control of his bat.

Only six weeks ago I had a conversation with a new coach with 14U kids - but most of them this was their first season ever.   One kid would basically, after the swing, if she hit the ball, would let go of the bat on the follow through, where it would fly to the fence.   Coaches have been working on her, to no avail.  The umpire warns her, warns the coach, and then tells the coach if she does it again he will call her out.

So, between innings the coach asks me - I'm just watching some friends' kids - if the ump can do that.   I told him he would have an interesting decision to make...technically, no, the umpire can't do that, and you would be able to protest (in this case this was a tournament)...but in discussing your argument with the umpire, or going to the UIC, it would inevitably be discovered that, though you are right, the correct penalty is ejection.   So, do you take the out, though incorrect, and hope that teaches your player a lesson and keep your mouth shut...or do you argue that she isn't out, but should actually be ejected.   Guess it comes down to how badly you want her to stop throwing her bat, or how badly you want to win the game (eg. bases loaded with two out and she throws the bat after hitting one to the alley)

Luckily, she doesn't get her bat on the ball very often, so she doesn't throw her bat very often, and the issue hasn't come up....yet.

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