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Guest Danae

Late force out call

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Guest Danae

We recently lost a championship game with this call. We had a runner on 1st and 3rd. 2 outs. Score was tied 5-5. We were the home team. Kid hits to the outfield.  3rd base runner scores.  Batter is safe on 1st.  Our team runs out on the field, home plate ump congratulates our coach.  Their team is leaving the field the ball is thrown out of play. Then out of no where they throw the ball to 2nd, the umpire calls an out and we go into extra innings. According to the bar umpire the 1st base runner didn't touch 2nd. At what point is it too late to call that out- everyone was leaving the field!

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Typically - if all the infielders have left fair territory there can be no more appeals.   If they still had players in fair territory, it's fair game.

Why was the umpire in the bar?  :)

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1 hour ago, Guest Danae said:

We recently lost a championship game with this call. We had a runner on 1st and 3rd. 2 outs. Score was tied 5-5. We were the home team. Kid hits to the outfield.  3rd base runner scores.  Batter is safe on 1st.  Our team runs out on the field, home plate ump congratulates our coach.  Their team is leaving the field the ball is thrown out of play. Then out of no where they throw the ball to 2nd, the umpire calls an out and we go into extra innings. According to the bar umpire the 1st base runner didn't touch 2nd. At what point is it too late to call that out- everyone was leaving the field!

I'm a little fuzzy on the ball being thrown out of play and then throwing it to second out of nowhere.  

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6 hours ago, Guest Danae said:

We recently lost a championship game with this call. 

I'm also a little fuzzy on this comment....

Did you not have any other chances in the 6 or 7 innings of regulation play to score another run?

Did you team not make any errors allowing a run to score or a baserunner that reached on a walk to score? 

Maybe  that kid on your team who struck out  in the 5th inning with runners on 2nd and 3rd for the 3rd out caused your team to lose the championship. 

Maybe that 0-2 pitch down the middle your pitcher threw with 2 outs and runners on that was crushed to the CF wall to score 2 runs caused your team to lose the championship...

Nah, couldn't have been anything like that. 

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10 hours ago, Richvee said:

I'm also a little fuzzy on this comment....

Did you not have any other chances in the 6 or 7 innings of regulation play to score another run?

Did you team not make any errors allowing a run to score or a baserunner that reached on a walk to score? 

Maybe  that kid on your team who struck out  in the 5th inning with runners on 2nd and 3rd for the 3rd out caused your team to lose the championship. 

Maybe that 0-2 pitch down the middle your pitcher threw with 2 outs and runners on that was crushed to the CF wall to score 2 runs caused your team to lose the championship...

Nah, couldn't have been anything like that. 

And, of course, nobody ever remembers the questionable umpire call that went in the team's favor in the second inning.

But, I guess if you have bases loaded and two out in the last inning and your batter pops up to second base, I guess the umpire's call of a catch lost that team the game.

 

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18 hours ago, Guest Danae said:

We recently lost a championship game with this call.

I think you lost a championship game because your R1 didn't go touch 2B.

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18 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

Why was the umpire in the bar?  :)

Isn't that obvious?

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3 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

 

But, I guess if you have bases loaded and two out in the last inning and your batter pops up to second base, I guess the umpire's call of a catch lost that team the game.

 

Nah, I think it was the 1-1 pitch that was called a strike to make the count 1-2. That changed the whole game you know!  

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32 minutes ago, Richvee said:

Nah, I think it was the 1-1 pitch that was called a strike to make the count 1-2. That changed the whole game you know!  

This reminds me of a friend of mine of recently lost a gold medal game he was coaching - I was watching. 

Afterward I said "you had some run production issues"...

He said "Yeah, and that ump was brutal." 

I said..."Sure...his strike zone was questionable, but he's not the reason your team left the bases loaded in three consecutive innings."....

"Yeah, bases loaded with nobody out and you don't score...can't pin that on the ump"....

"Well you just tried to."

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22 hours ago, Guest Danae said:

We recently lost a championship game with this call. We had a runner on 1st and 3rd. 2 outs. Score was tied 5-5. We were the home team. Kid hits to the outfield.  3rd base runner scores.  Batter is safe on 1st.  Our team runs out on the field, home plate ump congratulates our coach.  Their team is leaving the field the ball is thrown out of play. Then out of no where they throw the ball to 2nd, the umpire calls an out and we go into extra innings. According to the bar umpire the 1st base runner didn't touch 2nd. At what point is it too late to call that out- everyone was leaving the field!

I have to agree with CJK. Bottom line here, your coaches should have known that the runner has to advance and touch the next base. You can't blame that on the umpire or any late appeal.

 

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22 hours ago, Guest Danae said:

We recently lost a championship game with this call. We had a runner on 1st and 3rd. 2 outs. Score was tied 5-5. We were the home team. Kid hits to the outfield.  3rd base runner scores.  Batter is safe on 1st.  Our team runs out on the field, home plate ump congratulates our coach.  Their team is leaving the field the ball is thrown out of play. Then out of no where they throw the ball to 2nd, the umpire calls an out and we go into extra innings. According to the bar umpire the 1st base runner didn't touch 2nd. At what point is it too late to call that out- everyone was leaving the field!

How do you lose a game when you are the home team, 2 outs and the game is TIED. So what, you went extra innings and then the other team beat you? Cry me a river.

Hanging your teams failure to complete their running assignment on the umpire is chicken $hit... your R1 failed to do his job, your base coaches failed to do their jobs. The only person in this post who did their job was U1 or U2 who watched, waited and then ruled when the ball was thrown to 2nd for the force out.

 

 

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5 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

And, of course, nobody ever remembers the questionable umpire call that went in the team's favor in the second inning.

 

 

Are you that naive?

Of course it's remembered. By both teams  Team B is blaming that call for allowing team A to score when they shouldn't have, or maybe for preventing Team B from scoring the 6th run. But it's remembered. By both teams. 

And stop trying to offload the fact that umpires sometimes make bad calls.  Replay is proving that.

 

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23 hours ago, Guest Danae said:

We recently lost a championship game with this call......

So, if it had been a ball hit to the SS, instead of the outfield, and he threw to 2nd after the runner crossed home, would you still have "lost" the game on a "bad" call? What you mean to say is you went into extra innings because of a GREAT call by an umpire and a far better coach on the other side--both of which actually knew the rules and were paying attention.

No you lost a championship game (in extra innings) because its not a time play, its a force out.

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3 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

Are you that naive?

Of course it's remembered. By both teams  Team B is blaming that call for allowing team A to score when they shouldn't have, or maybe for preventing Team B from scoring the 6th run. But it's remembered. By both teams. 

And stop trying to offload the fact that umpires sometimes make bad calls.  Replay is proving that.

 

No...it's forgotten by the team it hurt immediately after they win the game.  And it's forgotten by the team that it benefited about 0.000006 seconds after it occurred.

Yeah, umps make bad calls.  I didn't need replay to prove that.  I've coached and played enough games in my life without the help of replay technology to know that.   Umpires are human...they will make mistakes as anyone with a job will do.  And like any job, some people are just incompetent at what they've been assigned to do.

I also know that, in the long run, those bad calls even out.   

What I've never done is blame an umpire for my team's loss.

I have two standing rules to my players (and parents) that get outlined at the very first team meeting in the offseason..

1. If you don't like the umpire calling strike three at your eyeballs, hit strike one or two

2. If you don't want a one-run game to be decided by an umpire's mistake, score 15 runs and mercy the other team in the third inning

I don't want to hear about how the ump screwed us.

I've always considered an umpire's mistake part of luck - bad or good...no different than a gust of wind, a good or bad bounce, losing a ball in the lights.   You don't want luck to be a factor?  Score more.

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Do umpires make mistakes?  Of course. You know who also makes mistakes?  Players, coaches and fans when they claim umpires made a “bad call.”  We get a lot of them right that the participants just KNOW we got wrong. I won’t even go into rules interpretations. 

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On 6/26/2018 at 11:18 AM, Richvee said:

Nah, I think it was the 1-1 pitch that was called a strike to make the count 1-2. That changed the whole game you know!  

Pitch sequence is important, man - as we've been reminded in other threads....

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