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Third out run scored


Guest Breunig
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Guest Breunig

7U USSSA rules. 2 outs, bases load.  Batted ball to the second baseman. He puts the tag on the runner advancing to second.  Third base runner crosses home plate before the tag.  Umpire counts the run because "a tag was applied so it wasn't a force out".  Was he right or wrong?

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Yes, he was wrong.

Tagging a forced runner is the same as touching the base for a forced runner. The key word in all of this is forced. When the 3rd out is made by a runner forced to advance, no run scores.

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11 minutes ago, Mudisfun said:

Yes, he was wrong.

Tagging a forced runner is the same as touching the base for a forced runner. The key word in all of this is forced. When the 3rd out is made by a runner forced to advance, no run scores.

Have you ever seen another umpire interpret the rule that way?  We argued it for 10 minutes and he wouldn't change his call.

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15 minutes ago, Guest Breunig said:

7U USSSA rules. 2 outs, bases load.  Batted ball to the second baseman. He puts the tag on the runner advancing to second.  Third base runner crosses home plate before the tag.  Umpire counts the run because "a tag was applied so it wasn't a force out".  Was he right or wrong?

A force is defined by the situation, not the method of how he was put out.   The runner on first is forced to second when the batter puts the ball in play.  A runner who is forced may be tagged, or you may tag the base.  In either scenario it is a force out.

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Just now, cbreunig said:

Have you ever seen another umpire interpret the rule that way?  We argued it for 10 minutes and he wouldn't change his call.

Yes - especially at that age level -  at that age level the umpires are typically learning as much as the players/coaches are.

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2 minutes ago, cbreunig said:

Have you ever seen another umpire interpret the rule that way?  We argued it for 10 minutes and he wouldn't change his call.

Yes... in addition to the pitcher hit so many batters he must be removed (in LL there is no such rule), hands are part of the bat and a myriad of other rules myths.

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7 minutes ago, cbreunig said:

Have you ever seen another umpire interpret the rule that way?  We argued it for 10 minutes and he wouldn't change his call.

This is the key rule (USSSA may be numbered differently):

5.09 (b ) Any runner is out when: (6) He or the next base is tagged before he touches the next base, after he has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner.

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21 minutes ago, cbreunig said:

Have you ever seen another umpire interpret the rule that way?  We argued it for 10 minutes and he wouldn't change his call.

 

17 minutes ago, Mudisfun said:

Yes... in addition to the pitcher hit so many batters he must be removed (in LL there is no such rule), hands are part of the bat and a myriad of other rules myths.

And the more common "the third out is an appeal for leaving the base early and it's a force out so the run can't score" error (and frequent question).

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