Balk

[Guest mike cerilli]

Umpire calls a balk from behind the plate, pitch is made, ball is batted to the outfield center field where the ball is caught.

Is this an out? Or Dead ball?

[Richvee]

Different rule sets treat balks differently, though in this case the outcome is the same.

Under FED rules.(High school rules), the ball is dead the instant the balk is called. It's no pitch regardless of what happens on the pitch...The pitch doesn't count even if the batter hits it out of the park.

Under Official Baseball Rules (OBR), the balk is enforced unless the batter and all other runners advance at least one base on the pitch. In your example, as soon as the ball is caught for out by F8, time is called, and the balk is enforced. (batter did not reach 1B on the pitch). All runners move up one base, and the pitch does not count.

[maven]

1 hour ago, Richvee said:

Under Official Baseball Rules (OBR), the balk is enforced unless the batter and all other runners advance at least one base on the pitch. In your example, as soon as the ball is caught for out by F8, time is called, the out is nullified, and the balk is enforced. (batter did not reach 1B on the pitch). All runners move up one base, and the pitch does not count....

and the batter returns to the plate with his previous count.

[umpstu]

I wonder why high school hasn't implemented the same balk rule as OBR and NCAA?  I'm thinking that when a balk is called in high school that the kids just stop everything and stop paying attention which presents a hazardous situation.  If the OBR rule was in place then maybe they would continue to focus on what's happening.  Anybody help a brother our here?

[maven]

47 minutes ago, umpstu said:

I wonder why high school hasn't implemented the same balk rule as OBR and NCAA?  I'm thinking that when a balk is called in high school that the kids just stop everything and stop paying attention which presents a hazardous situation.  If the OBR rule was in place then maybe they would continue to focus on what's happening.  Anybody help a brother our here?

The OBR balk rule is rather complicated to enforce, with many different conditions and scenarios. FED has far, far more officials and a much wider range of officiating ability than any other rule set, and so among their priorities for rules in all sports is ease of enforcement. The simplified balk rule is a result of that priority in action.

The VAST majority of HS players do not go on to play NCAA, much less pro, baseball. The few who do are generally so dedicated to baseball that they have time in their lives and can pick it up as they go.

[Richvee]

4 minutes ago, maven said:

The OBR balk rule is rather complicated to enforce, with many different conditions and scenarios. FED has far, far more officials and a much wider range of officiating ability than any other rule set, and so among their priorities for rules in all sports is ease of enforcement. The simplified balk rule is a result of that priority in action.

The VAST majority of HS players do not go on to play NCAA, much less pro, baseball. The few who do are generally so dedicated to baseball that they have time in their lives and can pick it up as they go.

Over the years I have come to accept the FED rule, for the reasons explained above by Mr. Maven.  I no longer think it's a FED rule that needs changing. I've seen many varsity umpires have trouble with batter interference rulings, runner placement on overthrows etc. Asking them to learn all the nuances of the OBR/NCAA balk rule would be,dare I say, futile.  The vast majority of varsity umpires do not devote time to rules knowledge or even refreshing their own rules knowledge. We, my Umpire-Empire brethren, are the minority. 

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, Richvee said:

Over the years I have come to accept the FED rule, for the reasons explained above by Mr. Maven.  I no longer think it's a FED rule that needs changing. I've seen many varsity umpires have trouble with batter interference rulings, runner placement on overthrows etc. Asking them to learn all the nuances of the OBR/NCAA balk rule would be,dare I say, futile.  The vast majority of varsity umpires do not devote time to rules knowledge or even refreshing their own rules knowledge. We, my Umpire-Empire brethren, are the minority. 

But what about that HR that @VolUmp is concerned with.  I have the FED solution which is what many unschooled umps use in OBR. “ coach choice”. I hate it as I prefer we learn to apply the OBR rule but you gotta realize what you are working with, even in OBR leagues where the rule is consistently kicked. Oops, belay that, we would still have to train umps about when to call time which is another weak point among umpires.

 

[umpstu]

Curious. How many kids play fed rules before high school?

[Richvee]

23 minutes ago, umpstu said:

Curious. How many kids play fed rules before high school?

Around here....A lot. Tourneys, Travel, from 50/70 11U on up use FED with some mods.

[Richvee]

44 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

But what about that HR that @VolUmp is concerned with.  I have the FED solution which is what many unschooled umps use in OBR. “ coach choice”. I hate it as I prefer we learn to apply the OBR rule but you gotta realize what you are working with, even in OBR leagues where the rule is consistently kicked. Oops, belay that, we would still have to train umps about when to call time which is another weak point among umpires.

 

For every balk followed by a HR that has happened, there would be at least 50 kicked calls using OBR balk rules in high school.

For the record, I "like" the FED balk rule,but I understand why it's there. Coach choice is interesting. But if we're not going to change the rule to align, then my opinion is leave it be.

[Rich Ives]

17 hours ago, maven said:

The OBR balk rule is rather complicated to enforce, with many different conditions and scenarios. FED has far, far more officials and a much wider range of officiating ability than any other rule set,

OBR is the basis for LL, Ripken, Babe Ruth, Dixie, USSSA, PONY, etc.   It is by far the most widespread rule set.

[isired]

Curious. How many kids play fed rules before high school?

Most travel tournaments, at least 12U and up, use Fed as a base and modify from there.

[scrounge]

On 6/17/2018 at 8:52 PM, umpstu said:

Curious. How many kids play fed rules before high school?

Pretty much all the regular youth travel in central OH and most of the tournaments are Fed based, with varying degree of local modifications.