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Guest NJ COACH

Playing with 8?

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Guest NJ COACH

Is there a general LL and/or Ripken rule about playing with 8 players (incl auto-out in 9th spot in the order) or is that only addressed in rules of individual Rec and Travel leagues? 

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1 hour ago, Guest NJ COACH said:

Is there a general LL and/or Ripken rule about playing with 8 players (incl auto-out in 9th spot in the order) or is that only addressed in rules of individual Rec and Travel leagues? 

With official LL rules you cannot play with 8. Period.

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2018 Little League rule 4.17 – If during a game either team is unable to place nine (9) players on the field due to injury or ejection, the opposing manager shall select a player to re-enter the lineup. A player ejected from the game is not eligible for re-entry. If no players are available for re-entry, or if a team refuses to place nine (9) players on the field, this shall not be grounds for automatic forfeiture but shall be referred to the Board of Directors for a decision.

NOTE: A game may not be continued with less than nine (9) players on each team.

2015 Cal Ripken rule 4.17  A game shall be forfeited to the opposing team when a team is unable or refuses to place nine players on the field.

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Doesn't LL allow for "borrowing" a player? even one from the stands, if otherwise eligible to play?

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2 hours ago, LMSANS said:

Doesn't LL allow for "borrowing" a player? even one from the stands, if otherwise eligible to play?

Not once the game starts. 

There is a provision for using pool players to get enough players to play the game. Pool players are assigned by the player agent, not just randomly pulled form the stands. A pool player is assigned from a list of players, assembled by the player agent, that indicated they would be willing to be a pool player.

Pool players may not pitch and must play 9 defensive outs.

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What Rich said... also the Player Agent keeps the list, it is (or should be) secret, there should be no postings of who is on the list or is up to play next to keep managers from trying to game the system. 

For the international tournament, I do not think there is a pool player list... but I could be wrong.

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Guest coach

reason I ask, is that our town's system is for a manager to request a player not from a pool but from another team with a bye that day.    During our playoffs, however, this provides each team differing benefits since the available-to-borrow players are different.   And in pool play, a tiebreaker is Runs Against.  One team may be able to call up a very good player who helps the team win, or at a minimum helps give up fewer runs.

Yet another team might not be so fortunate and only have a weaker or less impactful player to borrow.

 

Playoff Team A adds Player #1 from Team F (with bye), who is a top catcher and limits stealing and scoring on WPs by Team B

Playoff Team C adds Player #2 from Team G(with bye a different day), who is a top third baseman but doesn't impact W/L or runs allowed very much.

Team C is disadvantaged in both W/L and runs against tiebreaker compared to Team A due to the inequality of the borrowing effect.

 

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I've seen some bizarre local rules this past week.  16u bat rules with different bats allowed by different age players and if the kid plays high school ball or not. Different pitching innings limits if a kid threw for the high school team or not. One coach brings the local bat rule out to me and says the other team's hitters are using illegal bats. I see the rule and all I could do was laugh. How the heck am I supposed to enforce that? Like I know all these players birthdates and playing experience 

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5 hours ago, LMSANS said:

Doesn't LL allow for "borrowing" a player? even one from the stands, if otherwise eligible to play?

Wouldn't they still have to be on the lineup card as an eligible sub at the beginning of the game?  And don't they have to be somehow sanctioned or affiliated to be an eligible sub?

The last thing you want is an uninsured player on the field.

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4 hours ago, Guest coach said:

reason I ask, is that our town's system is for a manager to request a player not from a pool but from another team with a bye that day.    During our playoffs, however, this provides each team differing benefits since the available-to-borrow players are different.   And in pool play, a tiebreaker is Runs Against.  One team may be able to call up a very good player who helps the team win, or at a minimum helps give up fewer runs.

Yet another team might not be so fortunate and only have a weaker or less impactful player to borrow.

 

Playoff Team A adds Player #1 from Team F (with bye), who is a top catcher and limits stealing and scoring on WPs by Team B

Playoff Team C adds Player #2 from Team G(with bye a different day), who is a top third baseman but doesn't impact W/L or runs allowed very much.

Team C is disadvantaged in both W/L and runs against tiebreaker compared to Team A due to the inequality of the borrowing effect.

 

And if I'm the coach of Team F or G I'm telling the other coaches to pound sand.  I'm not helping other playoff teams AND risking my player getting hurt in the process.   Not to mention I'm probably having a practice that day.

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Guest NJ Coach

Yes beer....you see the problem.  but managers can't readily say no because that is the official borrowing process.

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41 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

Wouldn't they still have to be on the lineup card as an eligible sub at the beginning of the game?  And don't they have to be somehow sanctioned or affiliated to be an eligible sub?

The last thing you want is an uninsured player on the field.

For LL see the posts above about pool players.

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1 hour ago, Richvee said:

I've seen some bizarre local rules this past week.  16u bat rules with different bats allowed by different age players and if the kid plays high school ball or not. Different pitching innings limits if a kid threw for the high school team or not. One coach brings the local bat rule out to me and says the other team's hitters are using illegal bats. I see the rule and all I could do was laugh. How the heck am I supposed to enforce that? Like I know all these players birthdates and playing experience 

As in all such rules -- just document what happened (player #14 used a -5 bat; his coach claims he is 13 so this is allowed; the opposing coach claims he is 21 and this not allowed) and send it to the league to determine the penalties.

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2 hours ago, Guest NJ Coach said:

Yes beer....you see the problem.  but managers can't readily say no because that is the official borrowing process.

There's no "release" process requiring coach consent?   Coaches/managers can directly contact other players on other teams, rather than going through that team's coach/manager?

Even then, it's pretty easy for coaches and players to be "not reachable" if they so choose...or, if they do answer the phone...or doorbell...to "have other plans"...you know, the equivalent of "I'm washing my hair that night".

 

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