Strange Ground Rule Double

[hbk314]

https://www.mlb.com/video/altuves-odd-ground-rule-double/c-2060415683?tid=63817564

 

That happened in today's Astro's-Indians game. Certainly not something you see every day. I didn't catch all of it, but I believe the explanation given on the telecast was that the ball was no longer "in flight" after it hit the fence. I'm a little surprised this is treated differently than a ball bouncing off the top of the wall given the rarity of this happening.

[maven]

I love to see the homer announcers' heads explode because they don't know the rules.

This ball is no longer in flight because it hit an object other than a fielder, namely the wall. Hitting the "top of the wall," that is, above the yellow line, is "leaving the field in flight."

[stkjock]

Edit - Maven with the explanation 

 

 Not specifically  covered in the parks GRs

 

• Batted ball strikes screen in left-center field and rebounds onto playing field: In Play.
• Batted ball goes through or lodges in out-of-town scoreboard, either on bounce or in flight: Two Bases.
• Batted ball in flight strikes yellow line on fence or top of railing in left center field and bounds into stands: Home Run.
• Batted ball in flight strikes yellow line on fence or top of railing in left center field and rebounds onto the playing field: In Play.
• Batted ball hits the top of the out-of-town scoreboard ledge and goes into the stands: Two Bases.
• Batted ball hits the side railing of the Crawford boxes and goes into the stands: Two Bases.
• Batted ball strikes higher wall or railing and rebounds over lower wall: Home Run.
• Batted ball in flight strikes flagpole and leaves the field: Home Run.
• Batted ball strikes flagpole and rebounds onto playing field: In Play.
• Batted ball strikes flagpole and rebounds onto playing field and then bounces over fence: Two Bases.

[Senor Azul]

OBR rule 5.06(b)(4) Each runner including the batter-runner may, without liability to be put out, advance:

(F) Two bases, if a fair ball bounces or is deflected into the stands outside the first or third base foul lines; or if it goes through or under a field fence, or through or under a scoreboard, or through or under shrubbery or vines on the fence; or if it sticks in such fence, scoreboard, shrubbery or vines;

 

[Richvee]

3 minutes ago, Senor Azul said:

if a fair ball bounces or is deflected into the stands outside the first or third base foul lines

Not really relevant here. It actually is a batted ball that hits in the middle of the fence and deflects over the fence in fair territory. 

[Senor Azul]

OK, Mr. Richvee, you caught me taking a shortcut. I was trying to lazily answer Mr. stkjock’s question about stadium ground rules not actually providing any help. Believe it or not, the NCAA and the OBR do not address this question in the rules. But they do by interpretation—one based on a FED case book play.

2015 NFHS 8.3.3 SITUATION H:  B1 hits a long fly ball to left field. F7 goes back to the fence, leaps, but is not able to touch the fly ball. The ball then rebounds off the fence, strikes the fielder’s glove and ricochets over the fence in fair territory. Is this a home run or ground-rule double? RULING:  This would be considered a ground-rule double. To be a home run, the ball must clear the fence in flight. Action secondary to the hit (ball ricocheting off the fence and then off the fielder’s glove) caused the ball to go into dead-ball area. Therefore, the hit shall be ruled a ground-rule double.

OBR Official Interpretation:  Wendelstedt:  Same as FED official interpretation…

Let me point out that the FED case book play says “in fair territory” but the ruling would be the same if the batted ball deflected over the fence in foul territory—a two-base award.

[stkjock]

My point of posting the ground rules was that this was not a ground rule double but likely s book rule call 

[Richvee]

17 minutes ago, stkjock said:

My point of posting the ground rules was that this was not a ground rule double but likely s book rule call 

I just think it's a cool play. I mean, who ever thought you would see a  ball in flight hitting the middle of a wall and,  untouched, deflecting over the wall in fair territory ?

[stkjock]

7 hours ago, Richvee said:

I just think it's a cool play. I mean, who ever thought you would see a  ball in flight hitting the middle of a wall and,  untouched, deflecting over the wall in fair territory ?

100% agreed.  Great thing about the game, played for 100+ yrs and still new things happen 

[Lindsay]

Something similar happened in KC a few years ago (ball struck wall and caromed over a shorter wall in fair territory). Just like what happened in Houston, the umpires incorrectly ruled it a home run. https://www.closecallsports.com/2015/07/2b-bounding-ball-over-ground-rules-less.html

[hbk314]

6 hours ago, Gil said:

Something similar happened in KC a few years ago (ball struck wall and caromed over a shorter wall in fair territory). Just like what happened in Houston, the umpires incorrectly ruled it a home run. https://www.closecallsports.com/2015/07/2b-bounding-ball-over-ground-rules-less.html

Going off of the ground rules posted above, I guess this rule is unique to Houston(and perhaps other stadiums with similar wall design)?

• Batted ball strikes higher wall or railing and rebounds over lower wall: Home Run.

It seems as though if a similar play had happened in Houston, it would have been a home run?

Also, just watching that play in Kansas City, I feel like that "should" be a home run. I understand why it wasn't, but it still "looked" like a home run.

[UMP45]

16 hours ago, hbk314 said:

https://www.mlb.com/video/altuves-odd-ground-rule-double/c-2060415683?tid=63817564

 

That happened in today's Astro's-Indians game. Certainly not something you see every day. I didn't catch all of it, but I believe the explanation given on the telecast was that the ball was no longer "in flight" after it hit the fence. I'm a little surprised this is treated differently than a ball bouncing off the top of the wall given the rarity of this happening.

The only thing I can think of is the ball hit below the yellow line.

[Lindsay]

If I recall correctly, MLB changed ground rules for several stadiums with the common theme of requiring a ball to first hit an adjacent part of the wall at a height greater than the top of the lower wall, and if the ball then bounces directly into the stands over the lower wall, it is a home run. Dodger Stadium used to have quite a loophole in its ground rules with the ruling that any ball striking any part of the bullpen gate and bouncing directly out of play over any fair territory wall was a HR. Now it's written in a way to comply with the "height of the lower wall" standard.

Yet Kansas City continues to go without its own specific set of ground rules other than the Universal.

[LMSANS]

On 5/19/2018 at 11:46 PM, Richvee said:

I just think it's a cool play. I mean, who ever thought you would see a  ball in flight hitting the middle of a wall and,  untouched, deflecting over the wall in fair territory ?

The layout of the local A team has 2 walls in the outfield that are in play and could have a bounce that goes over the yellow line on the neighboring wall. First time I worked the plate there (a HS game), I was told the ground rule by the host. I then waited the whole game for someone to hit that 400+ double. Fortunately, it never happened.