Jump to content

Remove these ads by becoming a Premium Member
Sign in to follow this  
sthomas13100

Throw to batter

Recommended Posts

Guys:  Bottom of 5th inning, starting pitcher takes 5 warmups, batter steps into box, and the head coach requests time and wants to replace his pitcher.  I stop him and tell him that his pitcher must throw to the batter.  He argues a little and tells me he just has to throw one pitch.  I stick with my ruling, the coach then states that if his pitcher throws one more pitch, he is not eligible to pitch the following day.  Again, I tell him my ruling that he must either retire this runner or he can intentionally walk him, he ends up intentionally walking the batter.  FED 3.1.1 and 3.1.2 are the basis for my ruling.  I did not tell him he could claim an injury, didn't think that was my job.

My question, does the pitch limits in high school in any way supersede the rules?  We don't keep pitches, we are not involved in them, and we are instructed to not make any ruling regarding pitching limits.

Should I have handled this situation differently?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Remove these ads by becoming a Premium Member

Pitch limits don't supercede playing rules.

 

That said, I don't think FED requires a returning pitcher to face a batter -- that's an NCAA and OBR rule. (unless FED has changed the rules in the past couple of years)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see anything in 3-1-1 or 3-1-2 that would require a starting pitcher to face at least one batter beyond the very first batter of the game. And even if it was the first batter of the game, he doesn't have to even face that one batter. But if he doesn't, the penalty is that he can't return to pitch in that game.

ART. 1 . . . After the lineup cards are official (1-1-2) prior to the game, the player listed as pitcher shall pitch until the first opposing batter has been put out or has advanced to first base. In any other case, a substitute may replace a player of his team when the ball is dead and time has been called. The umpire-in-chief shall record any reported substitutions on the lineup card and then announce immediately any change(s) to the opposing team. Projected substitutions are not allowed. In each of the following situations, the ball is declared live by the umpire-in-chief. Should there be no announcement of substitutions, a substitute has entered the game when the ball is live and:

a. a runner takes the place of a runner he has replaced,

b. a pitcher takes his place on the pitcher's plate,

c. a fielder reaches the position usually occupied by the fielder he has replaced, or

d. a batter takes his place in the batter's box.

PENALTY: If the starting pitcher does not face one batter, he may play another position, but not return to pitch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, sthomas13100 said:

FED 3.1.1 and 3.1.2 are the basis for my ruling

Unless I'm missing the language 3.1.1 talks about the pitcher on the lineup card starting the game, not each inning (and even here it says if the starting pitcher doesn't face a batter he can take another position but not return to pitch that game), and 3.1.2 talks about the newly subbed pitcher.  Neither addresses a pitcher already in the game starting a subsequent inning (like OBR does).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3-1-2   If a pitcher is replaced while his team is on defense, the substitute pitcher shall pitch to the batter then at bat, or any substitute for that batter, until such batter is put out or reaches first base, or until a third out has been made. To ensure that the requirements of this article be fulfilled, the umpire will deny any coach-defensive player conference that will violate the rule. If a pitcher is incapacitated or guilty of flagrant unsportsmanlike conduct, this rule is ignored. A player may be removed as pitcher and returned as pitcher only once per inning, provided the return as pitcher does not violate either the pitching, substitution or charged conference rule. If the pitcher, because of an injury or being incapacitated, is replaced as pitcher and the above rule is not satisfied, or if his replacement requires more warm-up throws than permitted in 6-2-2 Exception, he cannot return to the game as a pitcher.

3-1-1 also using the term batter. 

So, I know FED is not as clear as OBR.  Could you imagine if a coach could replace a pitcher after they have warmed up, he could continue to do so over and over. A coach could even have the pitcher throw pitch 1, then have F7 throw pitch 2, then F5 throw pitch 3 and so on.  I don't believe this is the intent of the rule.  Poorly written, yes. 

But I could be persuaded.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, sthomas13100 said:

So, I know FED is not as clear as OBR.  Could you imagine if a coach could replace a pitcher after they have warmed up, he could continue to do so over and over. A coach could even have the pitcher throw pitch 1, then have F7 throw pitch 2, then F5 throw pitch 3 and so on.  I don't believe this is the intent of the rule.  Poorly written, yes. 

In the 5th inning, the starter can throw the warm up pitches, and the coach may substitute for him as the lead-off batter comes to the plate. That's legal. Throwing warm-up pitches does not commit that player to face a batter (ever: even the starting F1 can be removed before facing a batter, but there are consequences for doing so).

Barring injury, the sub must face at least one batter (the offense may choose to pinch hit after the pitching change). This provision prevents the outcome you're worried about (sub after sub after sub, without facing a batter). Note that the requirement is "facing a batter," not "throwing a pitch," which prevents the other scenario that concerns you (the sub must continue to pitch to that batter until he reaches base, is retired, or the third out is recorded).

This application of 3-1-2 is apparent in this (otherwise somewhat different) case play.

Quote

3.1.2 SITUATION A: F1 is replaced by S1. The catcher or coach of the defensive team indicates to the umpire-in-chief that his team wishes to grant an intentional base on balls. Following the intentional base on balls, S1 is replaced by S2.

RULING: That is legal, since S1 has faced the necessary one batter.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, sthomas13100 said:

3-1-2   If a pitcher is replaced while his team is on defense, the substitute pitcher shall pitch to the batter then at bat, or any substitute for that batter, until such batter is put out or reaches first base, or until a third out has been made. To ensure that the requirements of this article be fulfilled, the umpire will deny any coach-defensive player conference that will violate the rule. If a pitcher is incapacitated or guilty of flagrant unsportsmanlike conduct, this rule is ignored. A player may be removed as pitcher and returned as pitcher only once per inning, provided the return as pitcher does not violate either the pitching, substitution or charged conference rule. If the pitcher, because of an injury or being incapacitated, is replaced as pitcher and the above rule is not satisfied, or if his replacement requires more warm-up throws than permitted in 6-2-2 Exception, he cannot return to the game as a pitcher.

3-1-1 also using the term batter. 

So, I know FED is not as clear as OBR.  Could you imagine if a coach could replace a pitcher after they have warmed up, he could continue to do so over and over. A coach could even have the pitcher throw pitch 1, then have F7 throw pitch 2, then F5 throw pitch 3 and so on.  I don't believe this is the intent of the rule.  Poorly written, yes. 

But I could be persuaded.

the rule applies to RELIEF pitchers, not a pitcher who is already in the game.  In your play example, the first part is true (throw pitch 1), the rest is NOT true, for the reasons you've identified.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, sthomas13100 said:

OK, I've been persuaded.  No rule support.

Well, you're no OceanBlue, that's for sure.  ;)

  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×