Base award

[Richvee 1,838]

Searching for something else in the FED interps, I ran across this. It was probably discussed before, but I either don't remember it or never saw it. 

SITUATION 17: A left-handed pitcher attempts to pick-off the runner at first base. Simultaneously with his throw, the pitcher picks up his pivot foot and places it behind the pitcher’s plate. The throw bounces off the first baseman’s glove and goes into dead-ball territory. The base umpire awards the runner third base, ruling that the pitcher was an infielder and the award is two bases. RULING: The award should be second base; only one base. The status of the pitcher at the time he made the attempted pick-off throw was still that of a pitcher, not an infielder. After the pitcher places his pivot foot on the ground clearly behind the pitcher’s plate, his status then changes to that of an infielder. Moving his pivot foot at the same time he attempts the pick-off does not change his status as a pitcher. (6-1-3, 8-3-3d)

Wouldn't this be a balk? If his pivot foot hasn't touched the ground yet, he can't separate his hands. Not to mention, if he hasn't stepped off the back, wouldn't he have to step towards 1B? 

[ElkOil 738]

59 minutes ago, Richvee said:

Wouldn't this be a balk?

Sure seems like it. If I saw it, I'd call it and would have no troubles explaining it if I had to.

[noumpere 2,514]

I remember discussing it when it came out -- and "all" agreed the case was mistaken and this was, as written, a balk.

[Matt 1,231]

If he's somehow able to step and then concurrently throw and move his pivot foot, this could be legal.

[johnnyg08 1,516]

22 hours ago, Richvee said:

Searching for something else in the FED interps, I ran across this. It was probably discussed before, but I either don't remember it or never saw it. 

SITUATION 17: A left-handed pitcher attempts to pick-off the runner at first base. Simultaneously with his throw, the pitcher picks up his pivot foot and places it behind the pitcher’s plate. The throw bounces off the first baseman’s glove and goes into dead-ball territory. The base umpire awards the runner third base, ruling that the pitcher was an infielder and the award is two bases. RULING: The award should be second base; only one base. The status of the pitcher at the time he made the attempted pick-off throw was still that of a pitcher, not an infielder. After the pitcher places his pivot foot on the ground clearly behind the pitcher’s plate, his status then changes to that of an infielder. Moving his pivot foot at the same time he attempts the pick-off does not change his status as a pitcher. (6-1-3, 8-3-3d)

Wouldn't this be a balk? If his pivot foot hasn't touched the ground yet, he can't separate his hands. Not to mention, if he hasn't stepped off the back, wouldn't he have to step towards 1B? 

Slight modification to the question...Curious, would this be the same for a righty and a jump turn? IOW, jumping back behind the rubber, all on one motion, then feinting to 1B? Then arguing that the pitcher stepped off? Balk or no?

[th3 275]

isnt this similar to a right handed pitcher stepping back and separating his hands at the same time while spinning to throw to 1st? We (or I ) see this all the time - if he fakes the throw, are we calling the balk? 

 

[Jimurray 585]

6 minutes ago, th3 said:

isnt this similar to a right handed pitcher stepping back and separating his hands at the same time while spinning to throw to 1st? We (or I ) see this all the time - if he fakes the throw, are we calling the balk? 

 

Both righty and lefty, as written, balk, as seen, no balk.

[Richvee 1,838]

8 minutes ago, th3 said:

isnt this similar to a right handed pitcher stepping back and separating his hands at the same time while spinning to throw to 1st? We (or I ) see this all the time - if he fakes the throw, are we calling the balk? 

 

We do see this all the time,and I've never seen it balked. That said, to be consistent, if we're not balking the fake throw on this move If he steps back and throws OOP, we've got a 2 base award.

[Richvee 1,838]

12 minutes ago, johnnyg08 said:

Slight modification to the question...Curious, would this be the same for a righty and a jump turn? IOW, jumping back behind the rubber, all on one motion, then feinting to 1B? Then arguing that the pitcher stepped off? Balk or no?

I always thought the jump turn was equivalent to a jab step. Considered a move from the rubber. SO, no throw,balk, throw OOP, one base.

[Jimurray 585]

11 minutes ago, Richvee said:

I always thought the jump turn was equivalent to a jab step. Considered a move from the rubber. SO, no throw,balk, throw OOP, one base.

I've seen awkward jump dissengages that were not jump turns. 

[Richvee 1,838]

25 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

I've seen awkward jump dissengages that were not jump turns. 

I know what you mean. I always try to think to myself when I see these strange things....."If I call a balk what rule can I use to explain it"

[Gfoley4 70]

37 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

I've seen awkward jump dissengages that were not jump turns. 

similar to this, maybe? 

 

[Jimurray 585]

45 minutes ago, Gfoley4 said:

similar to this, maybe? 

 

No in real time I have that as a jab step. 

The ones I see are more directly to the back of the rubber.