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Guest photoguy

Dislodged base

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Guest photoguy

Runner stealing 2nd knocks the base off.  He slid to the outside to avoid the tag and grabbed the base, pulling it off (although I don't think grabbing it is important).  He was unable to hang on, sliding beyond it.  He was then tagged by the fielder while out of reach of the bag and the original location of it.

All 6 (yes, 6) umpires got together.  They ruled him safe because "He had no base to go back to" so he therefore could not be put out.

Rule book 1.06 Note 1 states that "if a base is dislodged.....any FOLLOWING runner on the same play.....either the dislodged bag or the original original"...

They stated that since it says "following runner" it would not apply to the same runner.  My thought is that was just poor writing by the author, not thinking about the case of the same runner going back to it.

They simply stated "Safe" with no explanation.  I, being an on field photographer, ask the 1st base ump at the end of the inning.  They had decided that since the runner, who was lying face down in the dirt when tagged, had no official base to go back to (while I think he had a choice of 2 places) so he could not be tagged out.

They did not inform anyone of the reason, so they could not appeal the rule.  I think they would have won the appeal.

Little League, Intermediate level (13 year olds).

 

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22 minutes ago, Guest photoguy said:

Runner stealing 2nd knocks the base off.  He slid to the outside to avoid the tag and grabbed the base, pulling it off (although I don't think grabbing it is important).  He was unable to hang on, sliding beyond it.  He was then tagged by the fielder while out of reach of the bag and the original location of it.

All 6 (yes, 6) umpires got together.  They ruled him safe because "He had no base to go back to" so he therefore could not be put out.

Rule book 1.06 Note 1 states that "if a base is dislodged.....any FOLLOWING runner on the same play.....either the dislodged bag or the original original"...

They stated that since it says "following runner" it would not apply to the same runner.  My thought is that was just poor writing by the author, not thinking about the case of the same runner going back to it.

They simply stated "Safe" with no explanation.  I, being an on field photographer, ask the 1st base ump at the end of the inning.  They had decided that since the runner, who was lying face down in the dirt when tagged, had no official base to go back to (while I think he had a choice of 2 places) so he could not be tagged out.

They did not inform anyone of the reason, so they could not appeal the rule.  I think they would have won the appeal.

Little League, Intermediate level (13 year olds).

 

From 2013 LL Rules Instruction Manual

Rule 7.08(5)(c)

APPROVED RULING: If the impact of a runner breaks a base loose from its position, no play can be made on that runner at that base if the runner had reached the base safely.

I can't imagine that this AR has changed.

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Guest photoguy

Does this mean that the runner then continues on to 3rd base, is about to get tagged out, then takes one step back to 2nd base, before being tagged, he would be safe?

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7 minutes ago, Guest photoguy said:

Does this mean that the runner then continues on to 3rd base, is about to get tagged out, then takes one step back to 2nd base, before being tagged, he would be safe?

That would not be AT the base. It would be 80feet away from it.

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Guest photoguy

He is going back to 2nd base.  He cannot be tagged going to 2nd base.  What if he makes it half way back to 2nd.  3/4 of the way?  Within 1 foot? (don't mean to sound like Lot here).

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11 minutes ago, Guest photoguy said:

Does this mean that the runner then continues on to 3rd base, is about to get tagged out, then takes one step back to 2nd base, before being tagged, he would be safe?

I interpret this AR as the fielder cannot make a play on the runner on the immediate action that caused the base to dislodge. (Again note that this AR applies if the runner reached the base safely in the first place.)  If the runner got up and made an attempt to go to 3rd base, but then tried to return to 2B, I would treat that runner the same as if he were a following runner.

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35 minutes ago, Guest photoguy said:

He is going back to 2nd base.  He cannot be tagged going to 2nd base.  What if he makes it half way back to 2nd.  3/4 of the way?  Within 1 foot? (don't mean to sound like Lot here).

I understand. The AR shouldn't be read that literally. if the runner is returning to the dislodged base, if he's a fair distance away from where the base should be, he's out. if he's anywhere close to where the base should be, you cannot call him out. The same principal that is applied to a following runner approaching a dislodged base. He need not touch the physical base, just the area around where it should be is sufficient.

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The base is a spot on the ground, usually marked by a stationary bag (or plate). If the bag moves from the spot, we rule on runners based on the spot, not the bag (benefit of any doubt to the runner).

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3 hours ago, maven said:

The base is a spot on the ground, usually marked by a stationary bag (or plate). If the bag moves from the spot, we rule on runners based on the spot, not the bag (benefit of any doubt to the runner).

Caution. The OP was LL. In LL the runner can use either the spot or the dislodged bag.

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On the initial play, around where the bag should be, or where the top portion lies which dislodged is fine, by LL interpretation. In most instances, on a play this close, where R1 is coming into 2nd and slides to avoid a tag, there is a very good chance F4/F6 is now holding the ball and nothing else is going to happen.

TIME... fix the bag. Problems there after solved.

If the ball careens into the outfield and the runner tries to advance and then returns, he has 2 options... bag or where the bag should be. Pick one... 

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51 minutes ago, Mudisfun said:

On the initial play, around where the bag should be, or where the top portion lies which dislodged is fine, by LL interpretation. In most instances, on a play this close, where R1 is coming into 2nd and slides to avoid a tag, there is a very good chance F4/F6 is now holding the ball and nothing else is going to happen.

TIME... fix the bag. Problems there after solved.

If the ball careens into the outfield and the runner tries to advance and then returns, he has 2 options... bag or where the bag should be. Pick one... 

I've seen them pick both:D

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Guest photoguy

If you would like to see the play unfold, it is starting at photo 308 of this album (full set for the game):  http://elivermore.zenfolio.com/p710083504

Or photo 97 on this album (highlights of the game): http://elivermore.zenfolio.com/p544144185

You can see the runner grab hold of the base in an attempt to take it with him, but he is unable to do so.

He did a great job of avoiding the tag, but came in a bit hot.

 

Note there is another play at 2nd just before this one, about 10 photos earlier (where the base does not come dislodged), so ignore that one.

 

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