Jump to content

Remove these ads by becoming a Premium Member
  • 0
Guest New2this

Force Out?

Question

Guest New2this

So...situation was this. Little League game..Majors division. 

Bases loaded..batter hits a ball to the SS who underhand delivers to the 3rd baseman. Runner from 2nd stops 1/2 to 3rd and 3rd baseman comes out to tag him. By the time the tag was laid down, the runner from 3rd crossed the plate. 

My initial ruling was that was a force out..run does not score. 

UIC at the complex, whom I called to verify rule as a coach was contesting it, said that was not  a force. 

President of the league said it was a force..over rulled the UIC. 

I have never seen this play in 10 yrs playing baseball, 15 years watching my son play, nor 4 years umpiring. 

Anyone have a ruling + rule number? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

13 answers to this question

Recommended Posts

  • 0

it's a force out, runner was forced to advance, he was put out before reaching the next base, don't confuse that fact that it he was tagged with it not being a force

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Remove these ads by becoming a Premium Member
  • 0
Guest New2this

That was my initial ruling. 

What im looking for is a rule number as I have to  "defend" my call to the UIC. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

OBR 5.09(b) Retiring a Runner 

Any runner is out when:

(6) He or the next base is tagged before he touches the next base, after he has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner.

 

LL pretty much aligns with OBR, so I'd bet you can find this in the LL rule book. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
3 minutes ago, Stk004 said:

OBR 5.09(b) Retiring a Runner 

Any runner is out when:

(6) He or the next base is tagged before he touches the next base, after he has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner.

 

LL pretty much aligns with OBR, so I'd bet you can find this in the LL rule book. 

/\ this, I don't have a green book handy to find the rule cite.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
4 minutes ago, Stk004 said:

OBR 5.09(b) Retiring a Runner 

Any runner is out when:

(6) He or the next base is tagged before he touches the next base, after he has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner.

 

LL pretty much aligns with OBR, so I'd bet you can find this in the LL rule book. 

That just says he's out.

You also need the definition of 'force play', which makes no reference to the manner in which a runner forced to advance is retired (tagging him or the base).

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
1 minute ago, maven said:

That just says he's out.

You also need the definition of 'force play', which makes no reference to the manner in which a runner forced to advance is retired (tagging him or the base).

Right.   IT would be nice if the "how a run scores" used "runner retired on a force play" instead of "by a runner being forced out" (or whatever the specific wording is; OR if the definitions also included Force Out.

 

I mean, it's obvious to all of us, but to some who hold the other belief, it's not so obvisou given the wording.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
1 minute ago, maven said:

That just says he's out.

You also need the definition of 'force play', which makes no reference to the manner in which a runner forced to advance is retired (tagging him or the base).

A FORCE PLAY is a play in which a runner legally loses his right to occupy a base by reason of the batter becoming a runner.

 

5.08 How a Team Scores

(a) One run shall be scored each time a runner legally advances to and touches first, second, third and home base before three men are put out to end the inning.

EXCEPTION: A run is not scored if the runner advances to home base during a play in which the third out is made (1) by the batter-runner before he touches first base; (2) by any runner being forced out; or (3) by a preceding runner who is declared out because he failed to touch one of the bases.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
4 minutes ago, Stk004 said:

A FORCE PLAY is a play in which a runner legally loses his right to occupy a base by reason of the batter becoming a runner.

 

5.08 How a Team Scores

(a) One run shall be scored each time a runner legally advances to and touches first, second, third and home base before three men are put out to end the inning.

EXCEPTION: A run is not scored if the runner advances to home base during a play in which the third out is made (1) by the batter-runner before he touches first base; (2) by any runner being forced out; or (3) by a preceding runner who is declared out because he failed to touch one of the bases.

4.09 in the LL rule book.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
12 minutes ago, maven said:

That just says he's out.

You also need the definition of 'force play', which makes no reference to the manner in which a runner forced to advance is retired (tagging him or the base).

Yes, the definition, at least, is clear in not differentiating whether the runner or the base needs to be tagged...only defining the situation, which you would hope in turn people would understand that it is the situation that defines the force, not how the runner is put out.   

A FORCE PLAY is a play in which a runner legally loses his right to occupy a base by reason of the batter becoming a runner.

10 minutes ago, noumpere said:

I mean, it's obvious to all of us, but to some who hold the other belief, it's not so obvisou given the wording.

You keep saying that word.  I do not think it means what you think it means.


These tournaments and associations have to stopping giving UIC status to the umpire who happens to be the oldest, or longest standing.   Not the first time I've heard of or seen a UIC botch a rule so badly.   Once had a UIC nullify a run when the B/R was tagged out a third base, because "the batter was the third out".

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

I don't have a book in front of me & not sure if LL changed their rule #s as well.  It used to be 4.09 (exception)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Little League has not changed its numbering format to match the MLB rule book. So its equivalent rule to 5.09b is in the LL book as rule 7.08e and it is worded slightly differently from the OBR--

7.08(e) Any runner is out when:

failing to reach the next base before a fielder tags said runner or the base after that runner has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner. However, if a following runner is put out on a force play, the force is removed and the runner must be tagged to be put out…

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Answer this question...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×