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The1yankee

Mask Pad material to face PREFERENCE - leather vs pad -

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Just curious. I notice, so far, I don't seem to mind leather pads. Haven't tried TW or the Wilson pad or memory foam

No need to change til these wear out, I feel, but definitely will own TW pads sooner then later

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I like leather.  Loved the doeskin pads when they were out.

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11 hours ago, umpstu said:

I like leather.  Loved the doeskin pads when they were out.

I agree. Loved the doe skin. Moved to Team Wendy and loved those. But they are rock hard for an inning or two in any temperate below 70 degrees. Have since moved to memory foam and really like those.

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57 minutes ago, BT_Blue said:

I agree. Loved the doe skin. Moved to Team Wendy and loved those. But they are rock hard for an inning or two in any temperate below 70 degrees. Have since moved to memory foam and really like those.

Yeah, I heard one guy on here, regarding the TW pads, that he puts em in the microwave, n nukes em, for a a few seconds, when the pads are at a low temp, i.e. below 55-60 degrees. Because, as u mentioned, TW pads don't perform to optimum potential, in colder temps.

so I hear. I cannot say this for certain, as I've never owned TW pads.....YET. But I've read enough feedback from others to conclude that reply and statement i made above, seems to ring true

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As a sub for doe skins, the Honig's calf skins are pretty good.  I'm either those or TW most of the time. 

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1 hour ago, BT_Blue said:

I agree. Loved the doe skin. Moved to Team Wendy and loved those. But they are rock hard for an inning or two in any temperate below 70 degrees. Have since moved to memory foam and really like those.

So Wilson no longer manufactures the DOESKIN mask pads @BT_Blue.?

I've seen them around at a few sites, are these just overstock from last year?

When did Wilson stop making the doeskin?

So what does Wilson use now in place of doeskin, I'm guessing they still make a leather mask pad?

Cowhide or Steerhide leather?

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@wolfe_man have u ever tried the Wilson memory foam pads, I think that's Wilson's top mask pads, not made with any leather, correct?

 Do they hold any weight vs TW?

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49 minutes ago, The1yankee said:

So Wilson no longer manufactures the DOESKIN mask pads @BT_Blue.?

I've seen them around at a few sites, are these just overstock from last year?

When did Wilson stop making the doeskin?

So what does Wilson use now in place of doeskin, I'm guessing they still make a leather mask pad?

Cowhide or Steerhide leather?

 

45 minutes ago, The1yankee said:

@wolfe_man have u ever tried the Wilson memory foam pads, I think that's Wilson's top mask pads, not made with any leather, correct?

 Do they hold any weight vs TW?

What' funny is that I think you got these questions mixed. Keith would have a much better than I do if doeskin is still available or not. Especially since I haven' used leather in a while.

Where as, I have used both team Wendy as well as Wilson Memory Foam in the last 5 years.

The memory foam and TW weigh just about the same. However, the MF are much softer. Even in the cold.

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1 hour ago, The1yankee said:

@wolfe_man have u ever tried the Wilson memory foam pads, I think that's Wilson's top mask pads, not made with any leather, correct?

 Do they hold any weight vs TW?

Honestly, they're a little softer - but not much in my opinion. I've not taken any shots with them, so I can't speak to that part.  I have squeezed both TW and Wilson memory foam and found that the TW's are less receptant to a "squeeze" - which means theoretically that they should resist an impact better than the Wilson's.

As to your other question, I'm not sure what type of leather Wilson uses on their leather pads now.  It is full grain leather, which I believe makes it cowhide.

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Leather is best for mask pads for abrasion resistance (durability) and ease of keeping clean. Tossing on the ground, knocking into the dirt, mud and sand, or hurling it into dugout in frustration, or jamming it into a gear bag with all sorts of other hard objects. Then, think too about all that spittle, sweat, and tobacco juice.

Who did I just describe? Most catchers. When will an umpire’s mask ever hit the ground? Never, except in the rare instance of it being knocked off your face (and all you who toss their mask on the ground prior to a plate meeting are clowns; stop it). And should we be staining our mask pads with tobacco juice? No, we shouldn’t be (I’ll leave it there).

Technical fabrics just cannot hold up to the abuse that catchers put them through, and remain affordable. The pros and supplied collegiates have no problems getting new mask pads frequently (think Nike gel-foams, for example, or All-Star or Easton), but the same cannot be said about all other amateur baseball players. For elite, top-level masks (think very light), they almost necessitate fabric-skinned pads because of the need for stand-off distance / volume.

Let me explain – the question is a matter of moisture management and weight.

Leather, especially vinyl-leather or pleather, is cheap. As you improve the type of (real) leather, the quality and softness of course improves, but leather still has a big problem – it is poor at moisture management, and is liable to weakening and rot when wet. And what’s inside leather pads? Why, it’s a big foam sponge, with all these little pores and cells where moisture can be retained. So, to keep contact between the foam and leather to a minimum, a liner has to be introduced, and up until a few years ago, this was wool or flannel. All those materials, especially organics, add up in weight. What good is a $250 super-lightweight mask when it’s weighted down by big, heavy, dense pads?

Because super-lightweight masks lack their own inherit density, they don’t dampen impact energy (such as steel), but instead, they instantly transfer it to the attached pads. And so, with the pads, there are only two variables that can be manipulated so as to absorb that energy – volume (stand-off distance) and foam property.

So, in the matter of foam property, Team Wendy uses Zorbium (their own patent) and Wilson uses a variant of memory foam. As I said before, Nike uses a gel foam. The trouble is, these foams need to be paired up with technical, moisture-managing fabrics, and they are inheritly expensive. The less expensive route to go is to use more common open-cell foams, and increase the volume. This is why All-Star and Easton pads are so big, and why the All-Star for-Magnesium pads are drastically oversized. In order to absorb the energy that the mask frame itself is doing nothing to dampen, the pads have to be – the less dense the frame, the more volume of pad to compensate.

So, it becomes a compromise between comfort (feel) and protection. Would I put leather pads on a titanium mask? For me, not a chance. Would I put them on a Honig’s or +POS hollow steel?... yes, actually I would consider it, because those mask frames, being hollow steel will bend, and at $40 each, become... well... disposable and replaceable.

Am I saying that one’s personal preference for leather vs. technical fabric is wrong? No. I’m just identifying that to this, like anything, is a compromise.

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I abandoned team Wendy pads and went back to Leather pads..........I have Honigs, and +POS leather on both my game rigs. I have recently come into possession of the  2 sets of the NIKE gel pads and will be working them into the rotation.......... 

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@Stan W.  Are the Nike gel pads leather?  If so, where can you buy them?

 

@MadMax  I wear leather, 4 or more year old Wilson Doeskin traditional on a Wilson Ti NewView (Flat profile) mask and the Wilson black calf leather traditional pads on a Wilson New View Ti mask.  Get hit in the mask all the time.  No ill effects whatsoever.  The key is the looseness of the mask harness. Mine hangs off my cap bill and barely touches my chin until a baseball comes into contact with it or I stand up or I speak which moves my jaw/chin into the mask.  Again, NO ILL EFFECTS whatsoever. 

They key to all of this is the looseness of the mask harness.  All of the energy moves through the mask as it spins off your cap bill and head.  Sometimes the mask hits the ground.  Most of the time I just grab it off the side of my head and re-adjust.  Sometimes I look at it first for dents.  None so far and I have worn my primary Ti Mask since July of 2008 for the overwhelming majority of my games worked.  High school, college from JUCO to NAIA to NCAA D II and MSBL Men's leagues including the 18 and over, 25 and over MSBL World Series out there in Phoenix.

I own a pair of +POS black doeskin(?) traditional pads still in the package.  Have not tried them yet but they seem very nice.

As for Team Wendy's pads, The ONLY three times I had a headache or any ill effects from being hit in the mask were three consecutive NAIA games over three days wearing the Team Wendy's pads in 45-55 degree weather.  Where I am certain I suffered at least one concussion.  F*#K Team Wendy's mask pads.  F*#K ' em I say. 

Now the Team Wendy chest protector retrofit padding is not so bad.  I have that installed on a M-L WV Gold and I like the thin status with the hard shell but I still feel it when I am hit in the CP.  It just doesn't hurt but sometimes I have a red mark.  When I wear my F3 Unequal V1A I know I was hit but don't feel it.  With my Tiny S-M WV Gold with the original thick air foam "sofa cushion" pads I feel nothing IF the ball actually hits the CP.  It is so small I sometimes get nicked in the belly or the side of my ribcage on a hit batsman deflection but that is a rare event.  I know the risks. I pays my buck and I takes my chances.

My two cents.......Everyone should wear what makes them most comfortable.  

 

My two cents.  

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@Majordave  I too found the TW pads too stiff and didn't like the feel on impact. I am still a big fan of the All Star LUC's and within the last year started liking the Honigs calfskin pads.  I completely agree about the loose mask harness, wear mine the same way.

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I had TWs on last night and took one to the mask. I think I’m going back to leather.  That’s two shots now that I think I felt more with TW than I would have with the leather.

 

 

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Took a foul ball to the mask just an hour or so ago. Bent the eye slot horizontal bar. With TWs, I didn’t feel a thing... other than the grief of having to now pound out that bend.

Dammit.

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19 minutes ago, MadMax said:

Took a foul ball to the mask just an hour or so ago. Bent the eye slot horizontal bar. With TWs, I didn’t feel a thing... other than the grief of having to now pound out that bend.

Dammit.

What mask?

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1 hour ago, tpatience said:

What mask?

Ha! My $39 +POS ZRO-G. If I can't pound it out and get it back right (enough), I'll just order in another one.

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5 hours ago, MadMax said:

Ha! My $39 +POS ZRO-G. If I can't pound it out and get it back right (enough), I'll just order in another one.

This is why I don't want to spend a lot on a mask.  I love being able to trot out a game fee and just get another mask to replace the broken one. 

On  a side note, Honig's doesn't offer the $39.95 navy mask with tan calf-skins anymore.  It's full price at $64.95.  I mention it because it was another good $40 option that I liked.

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1 hour ago, wolfe_man said:

This is why I don't want to spend a lot on a mask.  I love being able to trot out a game fee and just get another mask to replace the broken one. 

On  a side note, Honig's doesn't offer the $39.95 navy mask with tan calf-skins anymore.  It's full price at $64.95.  I mention it because it was another good $40 option that I liked.

I just saw that on their site. it might be worth an email to see if it is an error. I'm glad I snagged my navy set last year for $26. Wear it in my Nike ti.

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Yeah, it was a great deal. I really like the Honig's pads and the mask is surprisingly lightweight also for it's size.  Perhaps, I will contact them.

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Leather for me. Tan Wilson pads on my diamond and pos leather pads on my two zero g masks. I do have black synthetic pos pads on my black diamond but I will be replacing it with Black and Tan Wilson pads. I really like Wilson leather pads on my diamond masks. If I were to use something other than leather it would be Wilson memory foams. They felt good to me. Not a huge fan of TW. 

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Used to do leather, now I do memory foam exclusively. I like the Rawlings ones sold on amazon, as well as the wilsons. Tried really hard to get used to the TW’s but they are just too hard. And I can’t see how something that hard, with no give in it, can absorb any energy, even with your mask harness fitted properly.

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On 4/13/2018 at 4:18 AM, wolfe_man said:

This is why I don't want to spend a lot on a mask.  I love being able to trot out a game fee and just get another mask to replace the broken one. 

On  a side note, Honig's doesn't offer the $39.95 navy mask with tan calf-skins anymore.  It's full price at $64.95.  I mention it because it was another good $40 option that I liked.

 

On 4/13/2018 at 6:02 AM, midtnump said:

I just saw that on their site. it might be worth an email to see if it is an error. I'm glad I snagged my navy set last year for $26. Wear it in my Nike ti.

Any interest in a red honigs with navy pads?

Welp.... never mind. In the land of umpires wearing mainly black or light blue. Someone bought the fire engine red mask with the navy pads. Lol

I'm as shocked as the next guy!

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4 hours ago, BT_Blue said:

 

Any interest in a red honigs with navy pads?

Welp.... never mind. In the land of umpires wearing mainly black or light blue. Someone bought the fire engine red mask with the navy pads. Lol

I'm as shocked as the next guy!

Starting to love the Honigs pads but I  can't do a red frame. Navy shirt and the Ti with Navy pads, Powder Blue with black ZG w/black pads, Black shirt and ZG with black pads. I really need to get the tan leather honigs for the ZG for the black shirt too. 

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I gotta post this in defense of TW's. To each their own, but guys have to realize – all pads, regardless of which type used, must be maintained.

 

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