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I think that Rice was confusing 3-man with 4-man, where you DO go out on any fly ball, CCA or MLBUM

Still, 3-man does take more reading than 2-man (go out or pivot, U1 never rotates in 2-man), so I need to get some practice in 3-man to make sure that I can improve my reads. Probably the most difficult situation for U1 is R1/R2, less than 2 outs, because of the number of variables that could happen. 3-man U1s, feel free to chime in and tell me if that was your experience? 

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1 hour ago, ilyazhito said:

I think that Rice was confusing 3-man with 4-man, where you DO go out on any fly ball, CCA or MLBUM

Still, 3-man does take more reading than 2-man (go out or pivot, U1 never rotates in 2-man), so I need to get some practice in 3-man to make sure that I can improve my reads. Probably the most difficult situation for U1 is R1/R2, less than 2 outs, because of the number of variables that could happen. 3-man U1s, feel free to chime in and tell me if that was your experience? 

I don't think CCA requires going out with runners on in 4 man.

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I'll have to look through my manual again to make sure. The gist is that you don't go out willy-nilly in 3-man, and that umpires don't go out from the inside in any system. If U2 is stuck inside and there is a trouble ball, U1 or U3 might go out in 4-man. 

Do you have any experience doing 3-man, particularly as U1? I'd appreciate hearing whatever helps you make your reads quicker. It might help me as well. 

 

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11 minutes ago, ilyazhito said:

and that umpires don't go out from the inside in any system.

 

The middle umpire can go out in 3-person.

 

And, some groups might have a wing umpire go out on everything to that side in 3-person.  It *can* help because the umpire doesn't have to read so can go farther, and the remaining umpires can revert to 2-person, which they are familiar with.  It's a "value judgment" as to whether that makes sense for a particular group.

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11 minutes ago, ilyazhito said:

I'll have to look through my manual again to make sure. The gist is that you don't go out willy-nilly in 3-man, and that umpires don't go out from the inside in any system. If U2 is stuck inside and there is a trouble ball, U1 or U3 might go out in 4-man. 

Do you have any experience doing 3-man, particularly as U1? I'd appreciate hearing whatever helps you make your reads quicker. It might help me as well. 

 

Most of my experience is 2 man and 4 man in the postseason. The occasional 3 man I do requires intense prepitch.  

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On 8/9/2018 at 12:23 PM, noumpere said:

The middle umpire can go out in 3-person.

 

And, some groups might have a wing umpire go out on everything to that side in 3-person.  It *can* help because the umpire doesn't have to read so can go farther, and the remaining umpires can revert to 2-person, which they are familiar with.  It's a "value judgment" as to whether that makes sense for a particular group.

I'm just saying that going out from the inside in 3-person is not common practice, probably because mostly 2-person umpires would be doing so incorrectly in their respective 2-person games. Higher-level umpires (MLB) might do that, because they know how to adjust coverage for the baserunning that their partners leave behind, but it is probably better if amateur umpires don't leave their partners with baserunners in unplanned situations.

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2 minutes ago, ilyazhito said:

I'm just saying that going out from the inside in 3-person is not common practice,

I agree with that for HS and below , but it's not what you said before "don't go out under any system.."

I don't think FED mechanics allow it; my state didn't use them so I'm not certain of that.  It was not allowed in our state.

It's SOP in CCA for anyone who has worked for more than a year, say.  The first year, it's kind of like your experience with U1 -- you need to break the current muscle memory to allow it.

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On 8/11/2018 at 8:06 AM, noumpere said:

It's SOP in CCA for anyone who has worked for more than a year, say.  The first year, it's kind of like your experience with U1 -- you need to break the current muscle memory to allow it.

Even then, it gets messed up.  I was U3 in a Division 1 mid-week game last year.  My two partners just came off an SEC series where all three games were broadcast on regional or national TV.  Walking out of the locker room, I just said, "I'll try not to F*ck it up!"

Second inning, I'm in Deep B with an R1 only.  Ball hit deep to LCF.  F7 and F8 are on a sprint toward the wall.  I pause, read, and react and then go out.  And I yelled that I was going out.  (And I have a very, very loud voice.)  Anyways, it turns into a home run.  But, when I turned around, my U1 is rotating home, and my plate guy is rotating up to third.  Neither one had glanced at me.  If that ball had been off the wall, we could have had a sh!thouse.  

My two partners probably work 60 3 or 4-man games a year (at least), and almost no 2-man.  One of them has gone to Regionals.  And, even they screwed it up!

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4 hours ago, lawump said:

Even then, it gets messed up.  I was U3 in a Division 1 mid-week game last year.  My two partners just came off an SEC series where all three games were broadcast on regional or national TV.  Walking out of the locker room, I just said, "I'll try not to F*ck it up!"

Second inning, I'm in Deep B with an R1 only.  Ball hit deep to LCF.  F7 and F8 are on a sprint toward the wall.  I pause, read, and react and then go out.  And I yelled that I was going out.  (And I have a very, very loud voice.)  Anyways, it turns into a home run.  But, when I turned around, my U1 is rotating home, and my plate guy is rotating up to third.  Neither one had glanced at me.  If that ball had been off the wall, we could have had a sh!thouse.  

My two partners probably work 60 3 or 4-man games a year (at least), and almost no 2-man.  One of them has gone to Regionals.  And, even they screwed it up!

Going out from the inside is certainly not common, but two SEC umpires should recognize it and act accordingly.  Nobody's perfect!

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2 minutes ago, grayhawk said:

Anyways, it turns into a home run.  But, when I turned around, my U1 is rotating home, and my plate guy is rotating up to third.  Neither one had glanced at me. 

Soooo... who had the touches at 2B by R1 and BR? :D

Had it happen a few times this season while I was PU. My U1 was so eager to do rotations, he’d interpret any big fly ball to left as either a home run or a routine hit... but my U3 was so unsure of his reads, he’d go out... slooowwwwlllly. He’d already be out, and U1 would be coming down to visit the plate...

... so who’s got 2B? “No, Lou, who’s on first, what’s on second...”

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Indeed. THAT is the reason why inside umpires rarely go out. This is also the reason why U2 is inside with runners on base in a 4-umpire system. Indeed, at the 3-person camp that I attended, this is probably the reason why we were taught to not go out from inside (only when on the lines). 

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