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Blake Ahlers

2 Man R1 and R2

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Hello everyone.  Had a situation in college baseball yesterday that I had never heard of in regards to mechanics.  R1 and R2 less than two out with a deep fly ball to the outfield.  Both R1 and R2 are tagging.  Myself behind the plate I bust down to 3rd for a possible play on R2 at 3rd.  The issue I had was my partner claimed it was my responsibility to watch the tag up by R1.  

It’s been my understanding that base umpire has all touches and tags at 1st and 2nd and HP has all touches and tags at 3rd.  Am I wrong here?   Thanks for any feedback. 

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BU has tag at 2B - HP has tag at 1B, then the play into 3B. The ball responsibility is the BU, unless the ball is down the line.

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2 hours ago, maineump said:

BU has tag at 2B - HP has tag at 1B, then the play into 3B. The ball responsibility is the BU, unless the ball is down the line.

CCA has had U1 take both tag ups in my 2010 CCA and my 2018 CCA (p82). That being said my brief is that you, U1, have all touches and tags at 1B and 2B, if I can I will look at 1B while booking down to the library, but you are primary if there is an appeal.

Was there a brief?

BTW, I don't know if it's in the book but I say PU has all touches and tags at 3B except the BR. 

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2 hours ago, Jimurray said:

CCA has had U1 take both tag ups in my 2010 CCA and my 2018 CCA (p82). That being said my brief is that you, U1, have all touches and tags at 1B and 2B, if I can I will look at 1B while booking down to the library, but you are primary if there is an appeal.

Was there a brief?

BTW, I don't know if it's in the book but I say PU has all touches and tags at 3B except the BR. 

Cool - thanks for the quote from the CCA, I didn't look it up. We always pre-game this, we basically will have the PU glance at 1B if the ball is a trouble ball in the left-center area, as BU may have to get an angle. We do communicate who is taking the play/tags. Generally speaking BU takes them. The look is while on the way to the library.

The PU can tell if BU is taking both tag-ups by just watching him and how he sets up for the ball.

I haven't seen any brief, I was shooting from the hip as to how we generally handle it.

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18 minutes ago, maineump said:

Cool - thanks for the quote from the CCA, I didn't look it up. We always pre-game this, we basically will have the PU glance at 1B if the ball is a trouble ball in the left-center area, as BU may have to get an angle. We do communicate who is taking the play/tags. Generally speaking BU takes them. The look is while on the way to the library.

The PU can tell if BU is taking both tag-ups by just watching him and how he sets up for the ball.

I haven't seen any brief, I was shooting from the hip as to how we generally handle it.

I was asking the OP about a brief, another page in the CCA that both involved in the OP could benefit from reading, somewhere around p40:)

edited to add: I don’t think you should ever split those tags or retouches between BU and PU. PU might be calling a play at 3B when R1 decides to retouch or come close to retouching and advances to 2B on an overthrow or whatever. BU is primary on R1 and R2. As sarge used to say, lineup R2 and glance at R1 after. 

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Thanks for the quick responses everyone.  We did have a pre game and I remember specifically stating that base umpire had all touches and tags at 1st and 2nd (and I view that BR into 3rd as a given).  I was just wondering if there was some obscure  mechanic that the CCA has for this situation, much like the Fed has home plate umpire take the BR into third with no runners on.  

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Well, if it was a trouble ball down the RF line, I suppose it would make sense for PU to take the retouch of 1B by R1. 

Otherwise, if you're taking R2 into 3B, wouldn't it make sense for PU to take the retouch of R2, then take him into 3B?
Seems odd that you'd take R2 into 3B, but also have the retouch of R1 at first. 

 

 

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By stated mechanic, BU has the retouch.  The problem is that if it's any sort of a trouble ball, then BU needs to stay on the catch for a while, and can't see if R1 tags up  / leaves early.  PU can help here.

 

It's similar to the tag up of R3 with a trouble ball down the RF line -- BU can more afford to take a quick glance than can PU (depending, perhaps, on other runners).

Know where your partner is looking, and look somewhere else to help. 

If you have help (suppose the defense appealed R1 in the OP), then communicate who was watching and who is going to rule on the appeal.

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2 hours ago, johnnyg08 said:

Well, if it was a trouble ball down the RF line, I suppose it would make sense for PU to take the retouch of 1B by R1. 

Otherwise, if you're taking R2 into 3B, wouldn't it make sense for PU to take the retouch of R2, then take him into 3B?
Seems odd that you'd take R2 into 3B, but also have the retouch of R1 at first. 

 

 

By the manual the PU does not have any tag/retouch responsibilty at 1B or 2B. If the PU is taking R2 into 3B most likely there was a tag or a short retouch which can easily be handled by the BU along with the catch no catch. If R1 was tagging, which would not be as common as retouching, a BU head swivel would provide some judgement and the crew would determine whether the PU could help but the PU is running down to the library and rarely has an angle on the runners and the catch.

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6 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

By the manual the PU does not have any tag/retouch responsibilty at 1B or 2B. If the PU is taking R2 into 3B most likely there was a tag or a short retouch which can easily be handled by the BU along with the catch no catch. If R1 was tagging, which would not be as common as retouching, a BU head swivel would provide some judgement and the crew would determine whether the PU could help but the PU is running down to the library and rarely has an angle on the runners and the catch.

Agree. But as you said, it would be possible. 

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