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Guest James

Runner Misses First Base- Is An Appeal Required

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Guest James

No outs

No one on base

The batter hits a fair ball and runs to first and rounds to second.  There is no throw to first initially, but when the runner realizes he will not make second, he returns to first.  A throw is made to catch the runner returning to first. The F3 catches the throw, misses a tag, but has his foot on the base and the umpire calls the runner out for the missed base (though the fielders clearly had no idea the runner missed the base). The argument was that since the runner had yet to touch the base, that the throw ultimately beat the runner.  Is the runner considered to have reached the base when he passed it, even if he did not touch it?

It is my understanding that the missed base would have required an appeal. Is there a rule or approved ruling to refer to on this?

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8 minutes ago, Guest James said:

Is the runner considered to have reached the base when he passed it, even if he did not touch it?

Yes.

 

An "obvious" appeal is necessary.   I wasn't there, so I can't say whether the umpire thought the play includes an obvious appeal.

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11 hours ago, Guest James said:

It is my understanding that the missed base would have required an appeal. Is there a rule or approved ruling to refer to on this?

Sure, it's the rule covering missed base appeals (OBR 5.09(c), FED 8-2-6).

Both codes have language preventing an "accidental appeal." OBR has this: "An appeal should be clearly intended as an appeal, either by a verbal request by the player or an act that unmistakably indicates an appeal to the umpire.  A player, inadvertently stepping on the base with a ball in his hand, would not constitute an appeal."

As described, your play sounds like the defense was playing on a runner off base (trying to tag him while off base). That action does not constitute an unmistakable appeal, and if it unfolded as I'm envisioning, then F3's foot on the base would be an accidental appeal and discounted.

Except, apparently, still in South Carolina HS baseball, which still permits accidental appeals (those guys are busier than us, and have to get some extra outs to speed things along).

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Guest James
53 minutes ago, maven said:

if it unfolded as I'm envisioning, then F3's foot on the base would be an accidental appeal and discounted.

It unfolded like you envisioned.  Thank you very much. Both responses were helpful.

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Guest James
3 hours ago, maven said:

As described, your play sounds like the defense was playing on a runner off base (trying to tag him while off base). That action does not constitute an unmistakable appeal, and if it unfolded as I'm envisioning, then F3's foot on the base would be an accidental appeal and discounted.

I saw this in the 2017 OBR.  It is confusing because 7.10 says "7.10 Any runner shall be called out, on appeal, when—"

And 7.10(c) says: "(c) He overruns or overslides first base and fails to return to the base immediately, and
he or the base is tagged prior to the runner returning to first base;"

 

Obviously 7.10 is all appeal plays, but then why does 7.10(c) say that the runner or base can be tagged before he returns?

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40 minutes ago, Guest James said:

I saw this in the 2017 OBR.  It is confusing because 7.10 says "7.10 Any runner shall be called out, on appeal, when—"

And 7.10(c) says: "(c) He overruns or overslides first base and fails to return to the base immediately, and
he or the base is tagged prior to the runner returning to first base;"

 

Obviously 7.10 is all appeal plays, but then why does 7.10(c) say that the runner or base can be tagged before he returns?

Because that is for a runner failing to return immediately after overrunning or oversliding.

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Guest James
1 hour ago, Matt said:

Because that is for a runner failing to return immediately after overrunning or oversliding.

And overrunning first is different from rounding first for second?

When would a runner fail to return to a base unless they advanced to another base (or just gave up and walked off the field)?

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You're confusing two issues.

One is overrunning/oversliding, which involves touching 1B. This can be done without putting the runner in jeopardy, as when he returns immediately. When he fails to do that—say, by making a move to 2B—then he is liable to be put out by tagging him or the base.

Your original issue is a missed base, which is not a case of overrunning. That can be appealed no matter what the runner subsequently does.

Different rules apply to the two different situations.

Also: you're using old OBR numbering. The appeal rule is now 5.09(c).

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Guest James
1 minute ago, maven said:

Your original issue is a missed base, which is not a case of overrunning. That can be appealed no matter what the runner subsequently does.

Different rules apply to the two different situations.

Awesome.  Thay clarifies it.  Thanks!

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Appealable plays (base running infractions):

·        Retouch appeals—rule 5.09c(1) old rule 7.10(a)

·        Missed base appeals—rule 5.09c(2) old rule 7.10(b)

·        No immediate return after overrunning first base appeals—5.09c(3) old rule 7.10(c)

The purpose of 5.09(c)(3) is to prevent a batter-runner who has run through first base from remaining in short right field to attempt to draw a fielder away from a play on another runner—usually one at third base. That kind of play is the so-called “skunk in the outfield.” The batter-runner has to return to first base immediately or be vulnerable to an appeal and all the fielder has to do is tag the base and not have to chase after the delinquent batter-runner.

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That's not the skunk. Skunk is the play where R1 takes his lead in RF, and it's legal and not appealable.

5.09(c)(3) is unrelated to skunk, though it otherwise addresses the play you describe.

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That's not the skunk. Skunk is the play where R1 takes his lead in RF, and it's legal and not appealable.
5.09©(3) is unrelated to skunk, though it otherwise addresses the play you describe.

Thanks for the skunk link! Our Assoc. has talked about this before as we have a local school who’s known for running it.


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53 minutes ago, Catch18 said:


Thanks for the skunk link! Our Assoc. has talked about this before as we have a local school who’s known for running it.

Still? A HS program? It's so easily defended, I can't imagine a program being known for running it!

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Mr. maven--I am talking about (and so is Harry Wendelstedt) a BR not an R1 (a runner). From the 2016 BRD (section 454, p. 301):

Official Interpretation:  Wendelstedt:  A runner may lead off any base in any manner he wishes, including as far into the outfield as he’d like. The only restriction involves first:  If BR runs through first, he is required to return to it before taking his lead. He may not remain out in the outfield and “lead off” from that position, or attempt to draw a throw from the defense to allow other runners to advance. (email to cc, 11/16/14)

From the Wendelstedt Rules and Interpretations Manual (section 8.4.3.c—No Immediate Return after Overrunning First Base. p. 168):

Harry’s Hints:  The intent of this rule (talking about old rule 7.10c) is to prevent a batter-runner who has run through first base to remain in short right field to attempt to draw a fielder away from a play on another runner.

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Still? A HS program? It's so easily defended, I can't imagine a program being known for running it!

Well, “known” is relative. Never said they were successful


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Keep this in mind. A missed base is a missed base. It requires an obvious appeal. First base is NOT special.  It's just a missed base. If you wouldn't call it an appeal at any other base it isn't an appeal at first base.

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Mr. maven, you posted the following and could you clarify what you mean please—the bold italicized part specifically.

“One is overrunning/oversliding, which involves touching 1B. This can be done without putting the runner in jeopardy, as when he returns immediately. When he fails to do that—say, by making a move to 2B—then he is liable to be put out by tagging him or the base.”

OBR 5.09(b)(11) [old rule 7.08(j)] He fails to return at once to first base after overrunning or oversliding that base. If he attempts to run to second he is out when tagged. If, after overrunning or oversliding first base he starts toward the dugout, or toward his position, and fails to return to first base at once, he is out, on appeal, when he or the base is tagged;

Doesn’t this rule simply mean when a BR makes any move toward second base after acquiring first base he is now just a runner off his base and he has to be tagged to be put out? Or is it also an appealable play as you stated?

 

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I was looking at 5.09(c)(3), specifically,

"He overruns or overslides first base and fails to return to the base immediately, and he or the base is tagged prior to the runner returning to first base;"

5.09(b)(11) is clearer in distinguishing playing action—a move to 2B, which requires tagging the runner—from non-playing action, such as going to the dugout or returning to his position on the field, in which case either the runner or base may be tagged to appeal the infraction.

 

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On 2/11/2018 at 9:10 AM, maven said:

Except, apparently, still in South Carolina HS baseball, which still permits accidental appeals (those guys are busier than us, and have to get some extra outs to speed things along).

Actually, we do not permit accidental appeals.  We have appeals for missing a base/leaving a base early but only the "unrelaxed action" type (as that term is defined by Jaksa/Roder) where the runner knows he left a base early (for example: R1 only, hit-and-run and a fly ball caught by F9...and R1 is trying to retreat to first base).  For a "relaxed action" appeal (where the runner left a base early or missed a base, but he is not trying to return to correct his mistake)...we don't have those appeals in South Carolina.  We simply call the runner out at the end of playing action.

In the OP, in SC, the runner "acquired" first base when he passed it.  We would not have an "out" on the play set forth in the OP.

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Thank you for the clarification. I should have said "automatic" instead of "accidental."

Automatic appeals are, of course, even more objectionable, as the fielder doesn't need to do anything at all: the appeal just happens. I get the rationale, though: basketball and football players don't have to appeal infractions to get a call (and indeed are generally prohibited by rule from doing so), so why require that in baseball?

 

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2 hours ago, Double Up said:

Correct me if  I'm wrong, but if the BR passes first base before the ball, and the BR fails to touch 1B,  the BR  is safe unless otherwise appealed by the defense. 

Correct.

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