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Guest R. Duke

Help- before or after

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Guest R. Duke

For years, on those rare occasions when I needed help on pulled foot or swipe tags I felt the most direct way was to go to my partner BEFORE making my call.

This topic has come up time and again on U.E. and I have changed my view about this and now make the call and then get  help if needed.  But after reading Jim Evans

on Max. The 2 Man I confused again.  Evans stated that in 30 years he only asked for help 10 times and he would always ask for help BEFORE making a call if 

he needed help.  I understand most pros are more stiff necked about getting help than those of us doing HS etc. so maybe this is part of their culture.  I still like

asking after making a call.  Comments?

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     

 

 


 

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9 minutes ago, Guest R. Duke said:

For years, on those rare occasions when I needed help on pulled foot or swipe tags I felt the most direct way was to go to my partner BEFORE making my call.

This topic has come up time and again on U.E. and I have changed my view about this and now make the call and then get  help if needed.  But after reading Jim Evans

on Max. The 2 Man I confused again.  Evans stated that in 30 years he only asked for help 10 times and he would always ask for help BEFORE making a call if 

he needed help.  I understand most pros are more stiff necked about getting help than those of us doing HS etc. so maybe this is part of their culture.  I still like

asking after making a call.  Comments? 

You should make a call before getting help. Fulfill your responsibilities, whether it's fair/foul, safe/out, or whatever other decision you're responsible for. If you know you need help go get it right away, no sense waiting for an argument. But if you don't make a call before getting help it looks extremely indecisive and gives the impression that you (not you specifically, just a general you) don't know what you're doing. By making a call first then seeking help, it demonstrates that you know what your responsibilities are, you just got straight-lined or need a rule clarification or something of that nature. 

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Wouldn't it depend on the nature of the play?  If there are other base runners you can't be waiting for help before making a call.  So I think out of habit you need to take the same approach, rather than knowing when you can pause and get help, and when you shouldn't.

From the perspective of a coach, I'd rather see you make the call, and then look for help if asked by the coach - you can even do it and still appear (almost) proactive...going to your partner the moment the coach says "Blue?"  Or even before he says anything.

 

I've always looked at it this way...assume you don't have help.  If you were a one man crew you'd have to make the call immediately, and live with it.  So, suddenly having a partner shouldn't change that mentality - how often is your partner focusing on some other element of the play and isn't able to provide insight anyway?

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Many or most say, make a call, then ask (and that's how I was trained). That way, you have a "default" call if partner has nothing: whatever you called, "stands."

But think of this: if the runner beat the ball, then he's safe. In that case, we don't care about the pulled foot, and we'd never go for help.

So if we're asking, we already know the default call: the ball beat the runner, and he's out. If nobody saw a pulled foot, then he's still out.

In that light, the advantage of asking first is that we never have to change a call.

OTOH: changing a call in the era of replay isn't the bugaboo that it used to be (even, or maybe especially, in baseball where it's still more an issue than in other sports).

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1 hour ago, beerguy55 said:

how often is your partner focusing on some other element of the play and isn't able to provide insight anyway?

This is the reason you can't wait.  What happens when your partner had two things to watch and chose the other one, knowing that you had primary responsibility for your call.  You turn and ask for help, your partner looks at you blankly and shrugs, and you both look like lazy morons.

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58 minutes ago, CJK said:

This is the reason you can't wait.  What happens when your partner had two things to watch and chose the other one, knowing that you had primary responsibility for your call.  You turn and ask for help, your partner looks at you blankly and shrugs, and you both look like lazy morons.

Avoid that appearance by asking the right question: "Did you see a pulled foot?" If he was napping or had another responsibility, then the answer is "no!" All good.

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I make the call, then ask for help. There's definitely times when I'm going to go to my partner at the first mention of "foot", because I think that strongly that he pulled his foot.

 

The one that I always hope my partner will do is a U3k/ball situation, that way batter can have a chance to go.

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If you are 100% on the fielder holding the bag you can let everyone know that he did. I those situations I will point down at the ground or toward the base with my left hand and verbalize something like, "Yes he held it!" and then punch the runner out.

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