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Took me a minute, but I think I figured out what you're asking.

The clip shows a retouch appeal being made at 1B. You are correct that the "obvious" appeal in the clip is failure to retouch 1B. The umpire will rule on that when it happens.

If the defense wants to appeal a failure to retouch 2B, then they can just tag the runner standing on 1B. If the defense makes a second appeal ("he didn't tag up at 2B either!") the umpire (probably U2 here) will rule on that as a distinct appeal.

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The first appeal attempt I don’t think the ball was in play yet. 

 

The interveing play on judge would have negated any attempt to make an appeal as I understand it.  

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4 minutes ago, stkjock said:

The first appeal attempt I don’t think the ball was in play yet. 

 

The interveing play on judge would have negated any attempt to make an appeal as I understand it.  

It's a batted ball, caught for an out, and a throw to 1B for a retouch appeal on a runner who was stealing on the pitch. The ball is live the entire time.

The appeal was granted (I think for the 3rd out?), and the ball became dead. If replay overturns it and the defense wants to appeal a failure to retouch 2B, they will need to make the ball live first to do so.

Intervening play is irrelevant here. The defense may appeal this runner at both bases.

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3 minutes ago, maven said:

It's a batted ball, caught for an out, and a throw to 1B for a retouch appeal on a runner who was stealing on the pitch. The ball is live the entire time.

The appeal was granted (I think for the 3rd out?), and the ball became dead. If replay overturns it and the defense wants to appeal a failure to retouch 2B, they will need to make the ball live first to do so.

Intervening play is irrelevant here. The defense may appeal this runner at both bases.

they reviewed the play and ruled that he was safe at first. Judge, being a smart base runner, took off when they put the ball back into play and was closely tagged out as an attempted stolen base at second. Sorry, I didn't watch the full clip and assumed that final part was in the play. 

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50 minutes ago, Gfoley4 said:

they reviewed the play and ruled that he was safe at first. Judge, being a smart base runner, took off when they put the ball back into play and was closely tagged out as an attempted stolen base at second. Sorry, I didn't watch the full clip and assumed that final part was in the play. 

I see. Then yes, the defense would lose the right to appeal a failure to retouch at 2B because of the play on the runner stealing.

That's a rule difference from FED.

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1 hour ago, maven said:

I see. Then yes, the defense would lose the right to appeal a failure to retouch at 2B because of the play on the runner stealing.

That's a rule difference from FED.

So then your reply to my comment above is in error? :o

 

say it ain’t so...... :D 

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3 hours ago, maven said:

Took me a minute, but I think I figured out what you're asking.

The clip shows a retouch appeal being made at 1B. You are correct that the "obvious" appeal in the clip is failure to retouch 1B. The umpire will rule on that when it happens.

If the defense wants to appeal a failure to retouch 2B, then they can just tag the runner standing on 1B. If the defense makes a second appeal ("he didn't tag up at 2B either!") the umpire (probably U2 here) will rule on that as a distinct appeal.

That was a wild play and the Yankees were right in having Judge run as soon as the ball was put in play.  The appeal at first was if Judge was tagged before he got back to the base.  He beat the tag.  My question is why was a dead ball appeal allowed at first, but not the appeal at second?

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A segue generated by a comment on close call sports:

Still, that’s an interesting twist. @ Gil. A normal situation and common practice would would allow the ump to put it in play as long as an 89 foot lead did not exist. But if Judge was safe at 2B and the ball was put in play before he retouched 1B after the dead ball thus having an unfair and illegal lead, while the defense was waiting to appeal or throw him out on his steal of 2B and waiting for the live ball point what would we have: 

 

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1 hour ago, umpstu said:

That was a wild play and the Yankees were right in having Judge run as soon as the ball was put in play.  The appeal at first was if Judge was tagged before he got back to the base.  He beat the tag.  My question is why was a dead ball appeal allowed at first, but not the appeal at second?

how was it a dead ball appeal? The first attempted appeal was during continuous action, and was originally ruled out and later changed to safe. 

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Correct, if Judge "stole" second base, he's safe and the appeal has failed. Why? Because Judge touched second base (the originally missed base) before he or it was tagged on appeal. The tag at first base was clearly not an appeal of the baserunning that occurred at/around second base relative to the retouch failure.

Rule 5.09(c)(2): "Any runner shall be called out, on appeal, when—with the ball in play, while advancing or returning to a base, he fails to touch each base in order before he, or a missed base, is tagged."

The interesting part is MLBUM's interpretation of retouching a missed base while the ball is dead: runners are allowed to retouch a missed base while the ball is dead, provided they have not yet touched the base beyond. In this case, the base beyond is logically 3rd base...but we all know Judge's final resting base was 1st base—this isn't a ball thrown out of play, two-base award that would have given him 3rd or anything like that: he's prohibited by rule (5.06(c) to be exact) from running the bases during a dead ball (e.g., he can't advance to and occupy second base).

Yet if Judge is at 1B, is he really then "returning" to retouch second base? Is that legal, per MLBUM? Unfortunately, Judge didn't try retouching second base during the Replay Review or dead ball period after the play (in order to correct an act which occurred while the ball was live)...had he done that and Houston then tried appealing the traditional way (e.g., tagging second base instead of Judge while he was off the base), the resulting call would have been really interesting to see.

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11 hours ago, Gfoley4 said:

they reviewed the play and ruled that he was safe at first. Judge, being a smart base runner, took off when they put the ball back into play and was closely tagged out as an attempted stolen base at second. Sorry, I didn't watch the full clip and assumed that final part was in the play. 

So smart a base runner that he didn't know  to touch second on the way back!

  • Haha 1

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13 hours ago, maven said:

If the defense wants to appeal a failure to retouch 2B, then they can just tag the runner standing on 1B....

What would you do as U1 if the defense tags the runner and says to you "he missed 2B"?  I guess just point to U2 and say ask him?

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16 minutes ago, johnpatrick said:

What would you do as U1 if the defense tags the runner and says to you "he missed 2B"?  I guess just point to U2 and say ask him?

I don't know the current mechanic for "relaying" an appeal. I'd want to do it in a way that didn't confer any advantage either way: it's U2's call, and I would just relay it: "They're appealing his failure to retouch 2B!"

If that's not the standard way, I'd use whatever is standard.

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11 hours ago, Gfoley4 said:

how was it a dead ball appeal? The first attempted appeal was during continuous action, and was originally ruled out and later changed to safe. 

My bad. You're right. Forgot about that appeal. I was questioning why the Yankees' appeal of the tag at first was allowed during dead ball and not the Astros' appeal of Judge not touching second base.

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If the fielder took the throw on the bag like a 1st baseman before Judge got there (like a force play), he would still be out right? It was obvious that they were appealing. Judges running almost got them to screw it up by making the more difficult tag play

 

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1 hour ago, th3 said:

If the fielder took the throw on the bag like a 1st baseman before Judge got there (like a force play), he would still be out right? It was obvious that they were appealing. Judges running almost got them to screw it up by making the more difficult tag play

 

Yes.

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