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VolUmp

Improper footwork on pitch

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Jim,
Very lame ... I stated, and stand by, the fact that zero officials like the rule as is, and zero coaches like the rule as is, in my Association.
I never said that zero officials would screw it up on the field, and I certainly agree that considerable training would need to take place to have each of the umpires fully understand the MLB balk rule, and how to enforce it properly ... no matter what the scenario.  Grayhawk's example is a very good one.
So, please, retract your false statement above.
 
Furthermore, why do we have to use the extreme example of the batter hitting a home run that is negated by a balk in FED ... there are certainly very few home runs hit that are negated ... but any time a base hit is negated by a balk in FED, I daresay it is unfair ... 100% of the time.  What happens next doesn't ever justify the bad rule.
In other words, a kid who has a base hit negated may hit a home run on the next pitch, or he may line out into a triple play on the next pitch, and everything in between.
If you're going to debate just "how" unfair it is, or "how much affect" it has, consider that every base hit and every batter reaching 1B on an error are negated.


Well, not 100% of the time:

R1 with 1 out. The pitcher balks and delivers the pitch and the batter laces a base hit to right field. R1 tries for third and is thrown out. On the throw to third, the BR tries for second and is thrown out to end the inning.

How do you like that Fed balk rule now?

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Just now, Richvee said:

Even more common. R1, hit and run. Balk, pitch is delivered, line out to F3,  steps on 1B for the DP. Who benefited here? 

In that case, the balk is enforced anyway since the BR didn't advance one base. 

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Just now, grayhawk said:

In that case, the balk is enforced anyway since the BR didn't advance one base. 

You're too quick. As soon as I posted I realized the brain fart and deleted. :shrug:

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2 hours ago, grayhawk said:

Well, not 100% of the time:

R1 with 1 out. The pitcher balks and delivers the pitch and the batter laces a base hit to right field. R1 tries for third and is thrown out. On the throw to third, the BR tries for second and is thrown out to end the inning.

How do you like that Fed balk rule now?

Nothing unfair about your scenario.  The offense ran at their own peril and paid for it.  Could not be less relevant to the conversation.

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2 minutes ago, VolUmp said:

Nothing unfair about your scenario.  The offense ran at their own peril and paid for it.  Could not be less relevant to the conversation.

The defense committed an infraction and wasn't penalized. Keeping it live took what could have been a runner on second with one out to getting out of the inning. Unfair is in the eye of the beholder. 

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3 hours ago, grayhawk said:

The defense committed an infraction and wasn't penalized. Keeping it live took what could have been a runner on second with one out to getting out of the inning. Unfair is in the eye of the beholder. 

GrayHawk,

I believe you and Maven to be two of the top of the several very astute contributors on this forum.  Yes, the defense committed an infraction, but the batter chose to swing and put it in play.  I see this scenario you painted like the batter INT call that is ignored when the catcher still makes the out at 2B.  The offense committed an infraction there, but in the end, the catcher got what he wanted ... an out on a stealing runner.

So did the batter get what he wanted in your balk scenario ... a base hit despite the balk.  The runner moved up a base as well.  They both then ran at their own peril and were both thrown out ... neither out having anything to do with the defensive infraction.

I'm as sick as anyone else of debating this ... but MLB fixed the rule in 1958 for good reason, and it just grates on me that FED will keep an unfair rule because they don't trust the officials.  I think I'm the lone wolf here, but I'd rather change the FED balk rule to the MLB balk rule and take our chances on how often it gets screwed up.  Hopefully after a few screw-ups, each Association will do the work they need to do to make sure that the larger programs and more hotly contested games include at least one very seasoned umpire who has proven that he can handle the MLB balk enforcement.  There are so many officials that are so afraid to call balks as it is, because they refuse to really learn the complications of it, that I don't think fixing the rule would matter much except to the guys who DO call balks, and WOULD enforce them properly.

I heard your story loud and clear about your friend who calls college ball being talked out of a ruling by a 30-year veteran ... or a 1-year veteran x 30 perhaps ... but I'll never settle as you have on this issue.  My 2¢.

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1 hour ago, VolUmp said:

GrayHawk,

I believe you and Maven to be two of the top of the several very astute contributors on this forum.  Yes, the defense committed an infraction, but the batter chose to swing and put it in play.  I see this scenario you painted like the batter INT call that is ignored when the catcher still makes the out at 2B.  The offense committed an infraction there, but in the end, the catcher got what he wanted ... an out on a stealing runner.

So did the batter get what he wanted in your balk scenario ... a base hit despite the balk.  The runner moved up a base as well.  They both then ran at their own peril and were both thrown out ... neither out having anything to do with the defensive infraction.

I'm as sick as anyone else of debating this ... but MLB fixed the rule in 1958 for good reason, and it just grates on me that FED will keep an unfair rule because they don't trust the officials.  I think I'm the lone wolf here, but I'd rather change the FED balk rule to the MLB balk rule and take our chances on how often it gets screwed up.  Hopefully after a few screw-ups, each Association will do the work they need to do to make sure that the larger programs and more hotly contested games include at least one very seasoned umpire who has proven that he can handle the MLB balk enforcement.  There are so many officials that are so afraid to call balks as it is, because they refuse to really learn the complications of it, that I don't think fixing the rule would matter much except to the guys who DO call balks, and WOULD enforce them properly.

I heard your story loud and clear about your friend who calls college ball being talked out of a ruling by a 30-year veteran ... or a 1-year veteran x 30 perhaps ... but I'll never settle as you have on this issue.  My 2¢.

I agree with you that the OBR/NCAA rule is better than Fed, but I'm at peace with the way it is because it's so rare for the batter and all runners to advance at least one base following a balk. I would like it if they changed it, if for nothing else than for the war stories that would follow.

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I agree -- I think it's more that most of us who have been on these forums for a while are just tired of the fight and recognize that railing against it here is just too frustrating.  It's been proposed to the rules committee, it will continue to be proposed to the rules committee, and until one of us is on the committee (or whoever it is here wh is on the committee can prevail), there's just not much point in getting too worked up about it here.  Life is too short.

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