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All American CP? Paint chipping off padding


mbkcoach
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@jwclubbie After looking at the spandex covering the foam on the shoulder cap, the fabric looks loose. I wonder if there is a way to bond that fabric to the foam a little better, like using spray adhesive when placing the spandex over the foam? Did you discuss that with them at all?

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The fabric on the CP is not loose. It is stretched, and stitched very tight. It is almost how the spandex cover was originally. The should cap is impossible (at least on thsi run) to be completely tight. Getting the should padding out was not an option, as I was unsure if it would be damaged by attempting. She did a phenomenal job securing material to it. It rests normal when put on the shoulders.

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Here are AA replacement pads and leg straps are included, so I'm thinking they did...  but I am unable to locate any photos.  They evidently do still make masks as they're still selling AA masks.

http://www.allamericansportsshop.net/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=Replacement_Parts

 

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  • 5 months later...
On 1/17/2018 at 12:59 PM, jwclubbie said:

On All-American, can anyone verify if they made shin guards? If so- PIX!!!! Would love a pair.

I am supposed to be getting a 13" AA CP and leg guards (not sure of size on those yet).  I'll post pics when I get as they'll most likely both be up for sale.

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  • 6 months later...

Sorry to revive this. I've been offered a 15" AA that I am seriously considering. It needs a little TLC. But not as bad as John's once was.

Is the foam padding any different on the AA vs a Champion? I currently have a brand new one sitting in my garage. And would have to return that in order to snag the AA.

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4 hours ago, BT_Blue said:

Sorry to revive this. I've been offered a 15" AA that I am seriously considering. It needs a little TLC. But not as bad as John's once was.

Is the foam padding any different on the AA vs a Champion? I currently have a brand new one sitting in my garage. And would have to return that in order to snag the AA.

AA is MUCH better padding.  It's slightly thicker and way more comfortable.   It's not Wilson Gold thick, but it's close to Platinum padding but somehow more comfortable. The bad news is the padding has a thin, "cover" for lack of a better word, that starts to break down and peel.  The good news is only looks bad and won't affect performance at all. 

The big difference with these 2 CP's is the AA has thicker plastic and will last better/wear longer than a Champion.  The Champion's are known to crack under a fastball or foul ball, the AA will take it and keep going. 

I've seen the AA you're looking at (I think) and it has had the neck pad cut off and will need sewn back up or it'll continue to deteriorate.  Plus, cosmetic only, but the AA sticker looks dulled at the top.  Perhaps you can have a replacement sticker made or just take it off entirely and leave it all black? 

Go get it Arik! 

FYI - Jay Johnson has a 15" V-Sport with very good condition black padding.  I think they can interchange, maybe buy both and swap the pads?  The only thing is the V-Sport logo is on the padding at the neck, but maybe you can remove it gently.  His V-Sport looks like new and is $75+shipping on FaceBook.

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On 7/9/2018 at 8:26 AM, wolfe_man said:

I am supposed to be getting a 13" AA CP and leg guards (not sure of size on those yet).  I'll post pics when I get as they'll most likely both be up for sale.

Oh and I see I never made good on my promise.  Here is proof of the leg guards.  I see @JoHart10 has some black 17" AA shins for sale on FB.

 

 

AA shins1.JPG

AA shins2.jpg

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  • 4 weeks later...

I'm bringing this bad boy back from the dead cause it looks like I will have to do the same thing that @jwclubbie did with his All American CP. But now I have a bit of a twist that I need opinions on from our guys in the know like @wolfe_man and @MadMax.

I was given some 1/2" closed cell packing foam that a guy that works with foam thinks could work as a replacement for the couch cushion foam that the AA came with. It sounds extremely easy to cut to shape. And was free. So if it doesn't work. No problem.

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6 hours ago, BT_Blue said:

I'm bringing this bad boy back from the dead cause it looks like I will have to do the same thing that @jwclubbie did with his All American CP. But now I have a bit of a twist that I need opinions on from our guys in the know like @wolfe_man and @MadMax.

I was given some 1/2" closed cell packing foam that a guy that works with foam thinks could work as a replacement for the couch cushion foam that the AA came with. It sounds extremely easy to cut to shape. And was free. So if it doesn't work. No problem.

I think you'll want more than just the closed cell foam. I don't believe that only one layer of foam is going to work the way you would like.  Most of the good protectors use layers of foam.  I think AA has a harder foam on top and then a softer one against your body.  The closed cell foam may not "breathe" as well as you'd like either.  That's another advantage of layering - you can create little air channels if you take the time and do it yourself.  You could cut channels in the closed cell foam (either take a lot of time and create your own D3O or a la All Star CPU4000 center cut channel), then use a 1/8" thin layer of another softer foam to be against you and then, as a finishing touch, have a nice breathable liner made up like @jwclubbie did with his.

The 1/2" closed cell foam will certainly allow for the shock absorption you're wanting, but I think having this as the top layer against your CP plastic would be good.  I believe you'll want more than just one layer though.  My recommendation if I had the time and money would be to use something like 1/4 - 3/8" of a harder shock absorbing foam (like polyethylene aka closed cell foam) and then create air holes similar to D3O (or better yet find some of the real thing if possible) or maybe several channels like All Star uses on the CPU4000 System Seven CP.  Then, find a 1/8 - 3/16" softer foam that allows a close and comfortable fit against the body.   Finally, have a nice breathable material cover this all up that is quick drying and comfortable against skin. 

This needs to be experimented with to find the perfect sizes and width of foams to use so that you offer good protection and yet maintain a slim profile.  If you start with a 1/2" foam and build on that, then that will be a thick pad.  You won't feel anything, but it is going to be hot most likely - and will give you the "linebacker" look.  I wish I had more time and money to experiment, but I've got a project CP I want to play with too.  I can find foams pretty easy online (no D30 though of course), but the hard part will be finding someone who can make the lining/jacket for the foam once we have the right sizes down.

Best of luck and let us know how it ends up!

My :2cents:

(Side Note: Wouldn't it be great if there was a company out there doing this for us instead of us having to do it on our own?:Horse:)

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5 hours ago, wolfe_man said:

I think you'll want more than just the closed cell foam... [ a whole bunch of stuff about foam ]

My :2cents:

(Side Note: Wouldn't it be great if there was a company out there doing this for us instead of us having to do it on our own?:Horse:)

Yeah, what he said. 

... although, I have this odd feeling that Keith took notes during one of my rants over the phone, and just paraphrased it.

Anyhow, Keith is dead on that you don’t want to use closed cell foam alone. If it was that easy, Wilson would have done it already. Instead, you want to augment that closed cell foam and layer it with at least one other open-cell or open-lattice (think super big gaps) foam acting as a “sizing foam”. Then, you sandwich them between a durable netting or anti-scuff fabric on the outer surface, and a hydrophilic wicking fabric on the inner surface, and you’ve got the basis of your foam jacket. You’ll want to segment it. You could strategically locate thicker segments at critical points, or put reinforcement in where the means of attaching it to the carapace are to go, but it works to your best interest to map this all out and plan it to fit you...

... and the next one of us you’re bound to sell this to. :cool:

All-American’s plastic plates are far denser and more survivable because they were molded here in the States. China’s manufacturing of plastics is lighter and thus more brittle because they’re trying to shave every ounce they can off a unit so as to pack as many as possible in a container for transoceanic shipment.

I think critical step number one is locating and obtaining a technical wicking fabric with which to re-skin the foam jacket on that AA... that will be a big hurdle cleared.

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1 minute ago, MadMax said:

Yeah, what he said. 

... although, I have this odd feeling that Keith took notes during one of my rants over the phone, and just paraphrased it.

Anyhow, Keith is dead on that you don’t want to use closed cell foam alone. If it was that easy, Wilson would have done it already. Instead, you want to augment that closed cell foam and layer it with at least one other open-cell or open-lattice (think super big gaps) foam acting as a “sizing foam”. Then, you sandwich them between a durable netting or anti-scuff fabric on the outer surface, and a hydrophilic wicking fabric on the inner surface, and you’ve got the basis of your foam jacket. You’ll want to segment it. You could strategically locate thicker segments at critical points, or put reinforcement in where the means of attaching it to the carapace are to go, but it works to your best interest to map this all out and plan it to fit you...

... and the next one of us you’re bound to sell this to. :cool:

All-American’s plastic plates are far denser and more survivable because they were molded here in the States. China’s manufacturing of plastics is lighter and thus more brittle because they’re trying to shave every ounce they can off a unit so as to pack as many as possible in a container for transoceanic shipment.

I think critical step number one is locating and obtaining a technical wicking fabric with which to re-skin the foam jacket on that AA... that will be a big hurdle cleared.

I readily admit I have learned a lot from you and have no doubt picked up and embraced several of your arguments/explanations/ideas.  But there is still only one real @MadMax and it shows in the details and depth of your explanation.

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I can say I do the exact same. Basically regurgitate stuff on Facebook that Max has pointed out on here.

Also, here is the foam that I got. I have some ideas on the softer foam I could use. As well as possibly drilling holes through the foam to create airflow since there is no way I could do the idea that Keith came up with.

20190228_081309.jpg

20190228_081315.jpg

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15 hours ago, BT_Blue said:

As well as possibly drilling holes through the foam to create airflow

I wouldn’t drill, I would lance, especially with that kind of foam you have. It lends itself very well to melting, and thereby self-cauterizing. Drilling would just tear it. 

How to lance? Get a propane or butane torch, an oven mitt, and a length of copper (or brass) pipe in the desired width of the holes you want to make. The plumbing section of a Home Depot, Lowes, or Menards is where I’d start, but if those pipes are not small enough, there are typically smaller pipes, or tubes, in the air compressor sections for use in repairing air compressor components, or in craft work.

Lay out the pattern you want on the foam, and then superheat the pipe until it’s nearly glowing hot (oven mitt to protect your hand! I use welding or forge gloves), then start punching or lancing the pipe down and through the foam, in rapid succession until the pipe cools off enough and the foam begins to resist. Reheat and repeat.

As far as how to laminate the two foams together, I would try a sprayable contact cement like Scotch (or is it 3M?) Super-77. We used that to great extent when pressing prints to styrofoam and gator boards.

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  • 3 years later...

Reviving this. Just got a vsport and the cover is tearing off the foam pretty bad after my first game with it. Should I try the washing machine route first or just let it come off on it's own? It was kind of sticky but it might be due to the warm weather today.

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On 4/12/2022 at 8:36 PM, Scissors said:

Reviving this. Just got a vsport and the cover is tearing off the foam pretty bad after my first game with it. Should I try the washing machine route first or just let it come off on it's own? It was kind of sticky but it might be due to the warm weather today.

I've done the washing machine on them before.  It helps make it softer (less tacky).

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15 hours ago, Scissors said:

Pics for reference. Padding is white underneath. Not sure I want to remove all this but it's peeling a lot

It's a vinyl derivative, fused to the closed-cell foam (white), acting as a skin. Ya gotta remember, that technology is from the 1980's-1990's, they didn't have the modern, advanced fabrics that we do today. 

You're going to be best served by getting all that decaying vinyl skin off the pad. Now, if I was in your position (or if I was closer to Virginia), I'd even formulate a way of constructing a new, laminate-foam pad to fit the Vsport's carapace (and you) best. However, that existing pad is still functional, even with the skin off, but it's not ideal... it will become much more prone to rips, tears, and decay itself. 

If you want to continue with that existing pad vest, we're going to need to find you two (or three) things – a new technical wicking mesh fabric to act as a skin, a sprayable contact cement to adhere that new fabric to the foam pad, and then a sewing machine (hand-held or table-mounted) to sew the two fabric coverings together at the edge to encase the foam. 

Painting the foam vest directly will do nothing good. It will completely defeat any moisture-transfer / breathability the foam possessed, will dry it out, and any moisture trapped inside (at the time of paint cure) will almost surely begin to rot, or the pad will become exceptionally brittle.

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16 minutes ago, MadMax said:

It's a vinyl derivative, fused to the closed-cell foam (white), acting as a skin. Ya gotta remember, that technology is from the 1980's-1990's, they didn't have the modern, advanced fabrics that we do today. 

You're going to be best served by getting all that decaying vinyl skin off the pad. Now, if I was in your position (or if I was closer to Virginia), I'd even formulate a way of constructing a new, laminate-foam pad to fit the Vsport's carapace (and you) best. However, that existing pad is still functional, even with the skin off, but it's not ideal... it will become much more prone to rips, tears, and decay itself. 

If you want to continue with that existing pad vest, we're going to need to find you two (or three) things – a new technical wicking mesh fabric to act as a skin, a sprayable contact cement to adhere that new fabric to the foam pad, and then a sewing machine (hand-held or table-mounted) to sew the two fabric coverings together at the edge to encase the foam. 

Painting the foam vest directly will do nothing good. It will completely defeat any moisture-transfer / breathability the foam possessed, will dry it out, and any moisture trapped inside (at the time of paint cure) will almost surely begin to rot, or the pad will become exceptionally brittle.

I think I will try some of that swimwear material someone posted in the first page of this thread. I really like this pad and want to bring it back. I'll see if I can find a seamstress (or my mom lol) to do it. Just have to figure out a way to get the shoulder pads off without destroying them.

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1 hour ago, Scissors said:

Just have to figure out a way to get the shoulder pads off without destroying them.

Photos. Post up photos (or send them to me directly, PM for #), and I'll advise you on deconstructing it.

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