Jump to content

F2 carries ball to DBT


FleasOf1000Camels
Umpire-Empire locks topics which have not been active in the last year. The thread you are viewing hasn't been active in 2401 days so you will not be able to post. We do recommend you starting a new topic to find out what's new in the world of umpiring.

Recommended Posts

Strange play, what do you think?

OBR, 1 out, R2.  Batter singles to RC.   R2 trying to score, takes a VERY wide turn past 3rd, slips on wet grass and slides straight through the dugout gate.  F2, now with ball in hand, follows R2 in to the dugout and tags him while he's trying to get up from the tangled pile of bats and helmets.  Everybody, including me, is having a good laugh at the whole situation.  I don't believe I actually made an OUT call or signal.

Now I see the batter/runner standing on 2nd and call TIME.    I see nobody is hurt, and am thinking the play is all done.  But wait, OC approaches and asks "since the catcher carried the ball in to DBT, how many bases does my runner get?"  For what it's worth, I can't honestly say where BR was when F2 (and the ball) left the field...but my instinct says he had not yet reached 2nd.  Talked it over with partner, and we sent BR to 3rd.  Nobody had any complaints about it.  Just wondering what some of you guys think.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

can't help with the call, however, raised a few thoughts for this novice:

 

once the ball goes into DBT - can an out be recorded? the ball is immediately dead and time is called as I understand it.

 

if the ball is carried to DBT - and the runner has not be retired, should he be award home?  I know it sounds a bit ridiculous in this situation.

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, stkjock said:

can't help with the call, however, raised a few thoughts for this novice:

 

once the ball goes into DBT - can an out be recorded? the ball is immediately dead and time is called as I understand it.

 

if the ball is carried to DBT - and the runner has not be retired, should he be award home?  I know it sounds a bit ridiculous in this situation.

 

 

I was just thinking those same questions...

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, the lead runner was out when he left the field and entered DBT, so he's definitely not scoring.  An aggressive and repeated signal is appropriate, and may have prevented the catcher from taking the ball off the field to tag him, which could have saved you the rest of the circus.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, CJK said:

Well, the lead runner was out when he left the field and entered DBT, so he's definitely not scoring.  An aggressive and repeated signal is appropriate, and may have prevented the catcher from taking the ball off the field to tag him, which could have saved you the rest of the circus.

is that by interp?  I ask because before I posted my questions, I looked at OBR and what I could find in FED online for what the call is when a runner goes into DBT and found nothing, not saying it't not there, just couldn't find it myself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, stkjock said:

is that by interp?  I ask because before I posted my questions, I looked at OBR and what I could find in FED online for what the call is when a runner goes into DBT and found nothing, not saying it't not there, just couldn't find it myself.

801(c).  And, if the field is that wet / slippery, the game should be postponed / suspended.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, noumpere said:

801(c).  And, if the field is that wet / slippery, the game should be postponed / suspended.

8.01(c)? new OBR? Those rules apply to the umpire it seems

 

Quote

8.01 Umpire Qualifications and Authority 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, FleasOf1000Camels said:

Strange play, what do you think?

OBR, 1 out, R2.  Batter singles to RC.   R2 trying to score, takes a VERY wide turn past 3rd, slips on wet grass and slides straight through the dugout gate.  F2, now with ball in hand, follows R2 in to the dugout and tags him while he's trying to get up from the tangled pile of bats and helmets.  Everybody, including me, is having a good laugh at the whole situation.  I don't believe I actually made an OUT call or signal.

Now I see the batter/runner standing on 2nd and call TIME.    I see nobody is hurt, and am thinking the play is all done.  But wait, OC approaches and asks "since the catcher carried the ball in to DBT, how many bases does my runner get?"  For what it's worth, I can't honestly say where BR was when F2 (and the ball) left the field...but my instinct says he had not yet reached 2nd.  Talked it over with partner, and we sent BR to 3rd.  Nobody had any complaints about it.  Just wondering what some of you guys think.

What was your call regarding the runner in the dugout?

I can't find anything in my initial search about runners going into DBT, so given my understanding of the rules, I'd award the runner in the dugout home and the other runner 3B. It seems strange that a runner leaving the field of play unintentionally isn't covered, but I wouldn't want to call him out for abandonment, since he didn't abandon anything -- since due to circumstances beyond his control, he left LBT.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

When a runner is out IS in the rules.  Can't use this, 

I didn't say the runner was out -- I said a runner unintentionally entering DBT is not covered.  If someone wants to use the "if it's not disallowed, it's allowed" structure that we often do, that's fine.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

I found the following text in the 2014 PBUC (Section 6: Appeals and Awards, p. 50):

“A runner may no longer return to touch a missed base—home plate or otherwise—after having entered the dugout.”

This same interpretation can be found in the 2016 BRD (section 512, p. 328). I think OBR wants this situation to be handled as an appeal so that the defense does not have to chase the runner into dead ball territory. FED says essentially the same thing in its case play 8.2.2M—the runner may not return if he has touched the steps of the dugout.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Senor Azul said:

I found the following text in the 2014 PBUC (Section 6: Appeals and Awards, p. 50):

“A runner may no longer return to touch a missed base—home plate or otherwise—after having entered the dugout.”

This same interpretation can be found in the 2016 BRD (section 512, p. 328). I think OBR wants this situation to be handled as an appeal so that the defense does not have to chase the runner into dead ball territory. FED says essentially the same thing in its case play 8.2.2M—the runner may not return if he has touched the steps of the dugout.

This provision applies to a runner (or scored runner) intentionally entering the dugout, not one who slid into it.

Kill it, put that runner back at 3B, back up other runners accordingly. noumpere provided the reference.

I'm not giving the defense an out in the dugout, nor the offense a base for carrying the ball into the dugout. Everyone is equally happy/unhappy.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

What am I missing here? This is under catch and carry, unless the catcher throws the ball or falls down, him going into the dugout doesn't mean anything.

R2 is definitely being called out, but the play is still live.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, DVA7130 said:

What am I missing here? This is under catch and carry, unless the catcher throws the ball or falls down, him going into the dugout doesn't mean anything.

R2 is definitely being called out, but the play is still live.

"Catch and carry" isn't a thing anymore, at least not under OBR.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, DVA7130 said:

What am I missing here? This is under catch and carry, unless the catcher throws the ball or falls down, him going into the dugout doesn't mean anything.

R2 is definitely being called out, but the play is still live.

The OBR rule was amended a year or two ago. Now, the ball becomes dead once a fielder makes a catch and steps or falls into DBT. OBR 5.06(b)(3)(C) and Comment: "If a fielder, after having made a legal catch, should step or fall into any out-of-play area, the ball is dead and each runner shall . . . advance one base, without liability to be put out, from his last legally touched base at the time the fielder entered such out-of-play area.

 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

49 minutes ago, LRZ said:

The OBR rule was amended a year or two ago. Now, the ball becomes dead once a fielder makes a catch and steps or falls into DBT. OBR 5.06(b)(3)(C) and Comment: "If a fielder, after having made a legal catch, should step or fall into any out-of-play area, the ball is dead and each runner shall . . . advance one base, without liability to be put out, from his last legally touched base at the time the fielder entered such out-of-play area.

 

Damn. That's no fun. I don't really expect fundamental rules like that to change, but I guess I should browse this site more than just the offseason.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, DVA7130 said:

Damn. That's no fun. I don't really expect fundamental rules like that to change, but I guess I should browse this site more than just the offseason.

Or perhaps visit MLB.com around Jan or Feb and look at page iv mas o menos in the rule book for the changes. You did know about the intentional walk and declaring a windup? Right? Or is everyone in the Utrip, select world unaware of current OBR.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

Or perhaps visit MLB.com around Jan or Feb and look at page iv mas o menos in the rule book for the changes. You did know about the intentional walk and declaring a windup? Right? Or is everyone in the Utrip, select world unaware of current OBR.

Hey, I know OBR well. Damn well IMHO. I check FED each spring, because I know they're volatile. I don't really expect MLB to fiddle with rare umpire-level knowledge rules that aren't going to make media time.

But point taken, spring will include checking the new book not just re-reading.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, DVA7130 said:

Hey, I know OBR well. Damn well IMHO. I check FED each spring, because I know they're volatile. I don't really expect MLB to fiddle with rare umpire-level knowledge rules that aren't going to make media time.

But point taken, spring will include checking the new book not just re-reading.

Make it late winter. Spring is too late.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My sense of fair play is telling me the runner is out.

I don't see anything in Senior Azul's PBUC interpretation about intent.  (If there's context that affects that sentence, I could be convinced it doesn't apply.)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
On Friday, August 18, 2017 at 8:02 AM, noumpere said:

And, "catch and carry" wouldn't apply in the OP anyway since it wasn't a catch.

'Catch and Carry' didn't mean there had to be a catch... just covered carrying a ball into deadball, which 97% of the time was preceded by a catch. This scenario would have been one of the other 2%.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...