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Guest Emmanuel Costain

Balk while stealing

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Guest Emmanuel Costain

Here is the scenario.  Runner at second tries to steal 3rd, base umpire calls a balk but the pitcher delivers the pitch.  The catcher tries to throw to 3rd to get the runner however throws it into left field.  Runner then proceeds to score on the error.

So here is my question.  Is the ball dead at the point of the balk call (which the runner would get 3rd base) or does the play proceed until the umpire calls time (the runner can try to score at his own risk)?

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It depends on whether you're playing high school (FED) or professional (OBR) based rules. In high school the ball is dead when a balk is called, so the throw to third never happened. For OBR, it's slightly more complicated. The balk is only nullified if every runner, including the batter/runner advances at least one base. In your situation, unless it was an uncaught third strike or ball four, the batter did not advance one base. It would then be "no pitch" and the runner gets third. The one exception to this is if the pitcher balked while making a pickoff throw- runners can advance further than one base at their own risk. 

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11 minutes ago, Gfoley4 said:

It depends on whether you're playing high school (FED) or professional (OBR) based rules. In high school the ball is dead when a balk is called, so the throw to third never happened. For OBR, it's slightly more complicated. The balk is only nullified if every runner, including the batter/runner advances at least one base. In your situation, unless it was an uncaught third strike or ball four, the batter did not advance one base. It would then be "no pitch" and the runner gets third. The one exception to this is if the pitcher balked while making a pickoff throw- runners can advance further than one base at their own risk. 

There's another exception. Do you know it?

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4 minutes ago, Matt said:

There's another exception. Do you know it?

Maybe the balk/catcher's interference when a runner is attempting to steal home? Can't think of anything else.

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1 minute ago, Gfoley4 said:

Maybe the balk/catcher's interference when a runner is attempting to steal home? Can't think of anything else.

Wild pitch/passed ball. It's not dead until someone has the ball (which is actually kinda the same logic on a pickoff, but we need to put that out there.)

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13 hours ago, Gfoley4 said:

IThe balk is only nullified if every runner, including the batter/runner advances at least one base. In your situation, unless it was an uncaught third strike or ball four, the batter did not advance one base. It would then be "no pitch" and the runner gets third.

If the batter doesn't become a runner, then the batter's lack of advancement doesn't stop the other runners.

 

 

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14 hours ago, Matt said:

Wild pitch/passed ball. It's not dead until someone has the ball (which is actually kinda the same logic on a pickoff, but we need to put that out there.)

Time is not called until someone has the ball in the infield and no runner is advancing.

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2 hours ago, noumpere said:

If the batter doesn't become a runner, then the batter's lack of advancement doesn't stop the other runners.

 

 

But what does stop the other runners is you calling time when the pitch is caught other than ball four forcing all runners.

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19 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

But what does stop the other runners is you calling time when the pitch is caught other than ball four forcing all runners.

Yes, I thought that had been answered up above.  As might apply to the OP (where we know it wasn't a batted ball, and I think we can read that there wasn't an R1, so there's not going to be a ball four force) If the pitcher balks and throws wild, then the ball remains live so runners can attempt to advance more than one base.  If the pitch / throw is caught by F2 or any infielder, then the ball becomes dead at that point and everyone is awarded one base.

Here's a complete (?) summary from PBUC:

7.9 CALLING "TIME" AFTER A BALK
The penalty for balk allows the play to proceed without reference to the balk if the batter and all
runners advance one base on the pitch following the balk (i.e., the actual pitch and/or action
caused by the batter hitting the ball). The umpire shall not call "Time" until play stops following
the balk. The question therefore arises as to when the umpire is to call "Time" to kill the ball
after calling a balk. The following cases should help explain when play is considered "stopped"
and a what moment the umpire should call "Time" following the call of balk:
(1) If the pitcher balks and does not throw the ball, call "That's a balk; Time!" and enforce the
balk.
(2) If the balk is followed by a batted ball, leave the ball in play until it is apparent that the batter
and all runners will not advance one base. At that moment, call "Time" and enforce the balk.
If, however, the batter reaches first base and all runners advance at least one base on play
following the balk, play proceeds without reference to the balk.
EXAMPLES:
(a) If a batted ball follows the balk and results in a fly ball that is caught, call "Time" the
moment the fly ball is caught. Then enforce the balk.
(b) If a batted ball follows the balk and results in a ground-out on a previous runner at the
base to which he would be entitled because of the balk, call "Time" the moment the out is
made. Then enforce the balk.
(3) If the balk is followed by a pitch that is caught by the catcher, call "Time" the moment the
catcher catches the ball. Then enforce the balk. (Note exception in ball four situations
covered in item (5) below.)
(4) If the balk is followed by a pick-off throw to a base that is caught by a fielder, call "Time"
the moment the fielder catches the ball. Then enforce the balk.
(5) If the balk is followed by ball four delivered to the batter and is caught by the catcher, call
"Time" and enforce the balk unless all runners advance one base because of ball four. In that
situation, play proceeds without reference to the balk.
(6) If the balk is followed by a pitch that strikes the batter, call "Time" the moment the pitch
strikes the batter. Then enforce the balk unless the hit batter forces all other runners to
advance one base, in which case play proceeds without reference to the balk.
(7) If the balk is followed by a wild throw to a base, the Approved Ruling of Official Baseball
Rule 8.05 provides that the runner may advance beyond the base to which he is entitled at his
own risk. In that situation the umpire shall call the balk in the usual manner but shall not call
"Time" until all play has ceased (runners have stopped trying to advance and a fielder is in
possession of the ball in the infield).
(8) If the balk is followed by a wild pitch, the Approved Ruling of Official Baseball Rule 8.05
provides that the runner may advance beyond the base to which he is entitled at his own risk.
In that situation, the umpire shall call the balk in the usual manner but shall not call "Time"
until all play has ceased (runners have stopped trying to advance and an fielder is in
possession of the ball in the infield).
Note that even if the runner advances to or beyond the base to which he is entitled because of
a wild pitch following a balk, the balk is still "acknowledged." That is, the pitch is nullified
and the batter will resume the at-bat with the count that existed when the balk occurred
unless:
(a) The wild pitch was ball four on which all runners advanced one base; or
(b) The wild pitch was strike three on which the batter and all other runners advanced one
base.
In both situations (a) and (b) above, play proceeds without reference to the balk, because all
runners (including the batter-runner) advanced one base on the pitch following the balk.

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9 hours ago, Jimurray said:

But what does stop the other runners is you calling time when the pitch is caught other than ball four forcing all runners.

Exactly right.

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