Non-Ejections: 2 Examples

[VolUmp]

18u Tourney.  FED Rules. 

Bottom of 7, home team down 5-2, 2 outs. 

B-R bunts and I call him safe at 1B on a banger. DHC very politely asks if I'll get help. F3 came off the bag and got back on too late. Call stood after brief conference.

Next batter grounded out to F6 who made a fantastic play and another banger at 1B. 

I had both coaches sign the Game Card, and the losing coach said, "Now why would you end the game on a call like that? We were fightin' back and you were just worried about the previous call where they questioned you. He was safe all the way on the last play."

1)  What is a proper response?

 

16u Tournament and losing team gets mercied after four innings 10-0.  Team couldn't throw a strike. Only one minor argument from coach all game. 

I had both coaches sign the Game Card, and the losing coach said, "You guys are a total disgrace to the game."

2)  What is a proper response?

[Specks]

Since the game is over

1) "Have a great day" While walking away.

2) See above, unless the team will keep playing then feel free to run the rat!

[JHSump]

1) Shrug. No words. Leave.

2) Relaxed ejection mechanic.

(In regards to #2, that was almost exactly the statement I got at a "card signing" a few weeks back. And that was my response. "Personal" sealed the deal for the coach. Just because we have to get that card signed, we should not have to serve as last-moment "punching bags" for coaches.)

[grayhawk]

1 hour ago, JHSump said:

1) Shrug. No words. Leave.

2) Relaxed ejection mechanic.

(In regards to #2, that was almost exactly the statement I got at a "card signing" a few weeks back. And that was my response. "Personal" sealed the deal for the coach. Just because we have to get that card signed, we should not have to serve as last-moment "punching bags" for coaches.)

I agree with #2. Post game ejection is a no brainer here. 

On #1, I believe what the coach said warrants a response. I would likely tell him that he's entitled to his opinion, but the previous play had no bearing on the call. It was a close play, but I had the ball just beating the runner. 

[JHSump]

Yeah, that's certainly a reasonable response for #1 @grayhawk. Probably better than my response. I just don't like getting into discussions at all once the last out is recorded.

[grayhawk]

1 minute ago, JHSump said:

Yeah, that's certainly a reasonable response for #1 @grayhawk. Probably better than my response. I just don't like getting into discussions at all once the last out is recorded.

I understand your reasoning. The less said, the better in many cases. Walking away might work well, or it might aggravate him to say something and escalate the issue while you're walking away. I'd much rather deal with a coach face to face on my terms than with my back turned. Personal preference. 

[mw94]

and this is why I hate the travel ball bs about getting scorecards signed .  If their even a hint of problems i leave  let them go to TD desk if they want 

[VolUmp]

3 hours ago, JHSump said:

Just because we have to get that card signed, we should not have to serve as last-moment "punching bags" for coaches.)

As Specks alluded to above, both of these coaches were signing cards after they had been eliminated from said tournaments.

I really really really almost ejected example number two. I suppose I could have gone to the tournament director and forced the issue that this coach shall not  be able to coach his first game of the next tournament of the same brand of baseball.

And example number one, I actually thought he was joking with me at first, until I asked him flat out… And he said no, he wasn't.

Now how is that any less personal to imply then I got talked into a call or guilted into a make-up call because of the previous call, and thus, ended their tournament because of it?  I guess because he didn't sound nearly as mean-spirited about it, I just walked away. 

[Replacematt]

Don't go for help on a safe call at first.

[VolUmp]

12 minutes ago, Matt said:

Don't go for help on a safe call at first.

Not the way we're trained around here if a coach asks politely … neither at the FED nor NCAA level.  Coaches do appreciate it, and they know that to argue post-conference means Restriction or Ejection.

[Replacematt]

46 minutes ago, VolUmp said:

Not the way we're trained around here if a coach asks politely … neither at the FED nor NCAA level.  Coaches do appreciate it, and they know that to argue post-conference means Restriction or Ejection.

How could you miss something that would change a safe call into an out? 

I'm not buying that you're taught that at the NCAA level, either.

[VolUmp]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

How could you miss something that would change a safe call into an out? 

I'm not buying that you're taught that at the NCAA level, either.

1) Re-Read the OP.

2) Well, buy it. The only camps I attend are NCAA camps.

[Replacematt]

5 minutes ago, VolUmp said:

1) Re-Read the OP.

2) Well, buy it. The only camps I attend are NCAA camps.

I did read the OP. You saw a reason to call him safe. Your partner cannot have additional information for you on that.

[ElkOil]

1 hour ago, VolUmp said:

The only camps I attend are NCAA camps.

[VolUmp]

WTF?

I have attended 3 NCAA camps and zero HS camps. 

[kylehutson]

On the first, I think my response would be "Coach, I call exactly what I see. No more no less."

On the second, a post-game ejection would be appropriate if there was more playing to be done. If not (and looking at this now from a relaxed perspective - not sure I would be able to come up with this on the spot): "OK. I'm sorry you feel that way."

[BrianC14]

15 hours ago, ElkOil said:

    Mind if I...  em... 'borrow' this?   

 

[jjb]

The losing coach got the snot whaled out of him and tried to make it your issue. This is new to you?

You're not winning the argument, and no matter what you say, he's not going to tell you, "you know, you're right, I should have coached the team better".

Let it go, he's out of your life. A simple "Thanks for the input, coach" will suffice as you head for the beer cooler. 

[lawump]

On 6/15/2017 at 2:25 PM, VolUmp said:

18u Tourney.  FED Rules. 

Bottom of 7, home team down 5-2, 2 outs. 

B-R bunts and I call him safe at 1B on a banger. DHC very politely asks if I'll get help. F3 came off the bag and got back on too late. Call stood after brief conference.

Next batter grounded out to F6 who made a fantastic play and another banger at 1B. 

I had both coaches sign the Game Card, and the losing coach said, "Now why would you end the game on a call like that? We were fightin' back and you were just worried about the previous call where they questioned you. He was safe all the way on the last play."

1)  What is a proper response?

 

16u Tournament and losing team gets mercied after four innings 10-0.  Team couldn't throw a strike. Only one minor argument from coach all game. 

I had both coaches sign the Game Card, and the losing coach said, "You guys are a total disgrace to the game."

2)  What is a proper response?

#1  "I am 100% sure I had the call correct.  We'll just have to agree to disagree."  Any further response will be directly proportional to his response/reply to that statement by me.

#2  Automatic ejection.  I've had post-game ejections in the past; I'll have them again in the future, more than likely.  That's part of the game.  This one was a no-brainer, IMHO, as it violated one of the "P's".  It was "personal"  (the "P's" being personal, profane and/or prolonged).

[BrianC14]

7 hours ago, lawump said:

#1  "I am 100% sure I had the call correct.  We'll just have to agree to disagree."  Any further response will be directly proportional to his response/reply to that statement by me.

#2  Automatic ejection.  I've had post-game ejections in the past; I'll have them again in the future, more than likely.  That's part of the game.  This one was a no-brainer, IMHO, as it violated one of the "P's".  It was "personal"  (the "P's" being personal, profane and/or prolonged).

I think that #1 was also personal, albeit indirectly.   This coach has just openly questioned my integrity in front of other coach(es) while signing off scorebooks?    Not sure I'd let that slide so easily.  

 

[ElkOil]

4 hours ago, BrianC14 said:

    Mind if I...  em... 'borrow' this?   

 

With my blessing.

[ElkOil]

19 hours ago, VolUmp said:

WTF?

I have attended 3 NCAA camps and zero HS camps. 

You might want to demand your money back.

[Kevin_K]

 

21 hours ago, VolUmp said:

WTF?

I have attended 3 NCAA camps and zero HS camps. 

Most of the students in my classes at school learn a lot. They embrace the opportunities presented and excel. Some choose to not accept the insight, critique, or knowledge and do not improve as much as they might even though they attend on a regular basis.

Umpire camps are the same way. Attendance is indicative of nothing other than being present.

[BigUmpire]

"I had both coaches sign the Game Card"

Nothing good happens when a coaches and umpires interact after a game is over.

Be the first ones off of the field when the game is over.

 

[Stk004]

On 6/15/2017 at 1:38 PM, grayhawk said:

I understand your reasoning. The less said, the better in many cases. Walking away might work well, or it might aggravate him to say something and escalate the issue while you're walking away. I'd much rather deal with a coach face to face on my terms than with my back turned. Personal preference. 

So here's a general question for the group. What good does explaining your call on a standard safe/out play at first do? We're talking no pulled foot possibility, no swipe tag, just a standard safe/out. If I call him safe, obviously I had the runner beating the ball. There's no other reason to call him safe. So when the coach comes out and tells me "Well we saw it differently," shouldn't we just say "Okay" and get on with the game?