Jump to content
  • 0

How Would You Handle This?


Mad Mike
Umpire-Empire locks topics which have not been active in the last year. The thread you are viewing hasn't been active in 2490 days so you will not be able to post. We do recommend you starting a new topic to find out what's new in the world of umpiring.

Question

OBR Rule Set.

Bases loaded, no outs. Count 1-2 on batter. Low pitch comes in, skips the dirt, catcher blocks the ball and it then touches the batter. Batter does not swing at pitch and begins to jog to first base-presumably believing he was hit by the pitch. Unfortunately, umps don't kill it before this goes down......baserunners all begin to advance at a leisurely trot. Runner on third scores. Keep in mind TIME has not been called. The other runners advance to second and third respectively.

Question: How would you handle this when the defensive coach indicates that the Batter-Runners actions deceived the defense? He wants to know why there is no penalty for the BR doing this.

Now, it is incumbent on the defense to know the status of the ball. The catcher simply threw the ball back to the catcher as the runner trotted home.

Can/should this be "fixed" in any way, i.e. return all the runners, no score allowed, count now 2-2 or do we allow the score and advances by the runners and the count is now 2-2. Would we warn the batter if he steps out without legal reason(s), he is subject to some penalty--perhaps ejection?

Please discuss what option(s), if any are available.

Also, as a twist---what if this were NFHS? Could we get the batter out for stepping out of the box with both feet? (I don't think so, because the pitch has technically ended once it touched the catcher. But I am interested in what you guys think.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 answers to this question

Recommended Posts

  • 0

Interesting scenario. I will be interested in seeing the responses. I can't see anything here except if you snooze, you lose. In my mind, credit to everyone offensively involved in the play. Pretty darn heads-up. Sounds like it was well executed. Run scores. Runners stay. Play on.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

There's nothing to fix, because nobody changed a judgment call.

If this was intentional (and I don't know that it was), then it's a strategy designed to exploit poor mechanics. They're counting on the PU to stand there and say nothing.

But he made a call: he ruled that the pitch did not hit the batter, and that there was thus no reason for the batter to leave the plate area. When he takes 2 steps, the proper mechanic should be: "Batter, back in the box please!"

That communicates to everyone the no-call at the plate. If the runners want to keep running, the defense now has a fair opportunity to play on them, knowing that it's a delayed steal and not an unannounced award.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

But he made a call: he ruled that the pitch did not hit the batter...

I missed that in the original post, Maven. My assumption was that the PU simply called a ball or said nothing. While I can certainly see calling the batter back, I'm missing the dead ball situation apparently.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
25 minutes ago, WilsonFlyer said:

I missed that in the original post, Maven. My assumption was that the PU simply called a ball or said nothing. While I can certainly see calling the batter back, I'm missing the dead ball situation apparently.

I don't think you missed anything: by ruling only a ball, he no-called a HBP. But by allowing the batter to leave the box, he failed to announce his no-call or otherwise communicate the situation.

The solution to many such game management snafus is better umpire communication. Not all: especially at younger levels, they're perfectly capable of continuing to screw up, even with the best announcements by the umpire.

The moral of the story: don't allow a batter to leave the box (wait till he's a batter-runner).

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
1 hour ago, maven said:

I don't think you missed anything: by ruling only a ball, he no-called a HBP. But by allowing the batter to leave the box, he failed to announce his no-call or otherwise communicate the situation.

The solution to many such game management snafus is better umpire communication. Not all: especially at younger levels, they're perfectly capable of continuing to screw up, even with the best announcements by the umpire.

The moral of the story: don't allow a batter to leave the box (wait till he's a batter-runner).

This is one of the reasons I actually call balls as opposed to saying nothing...and when there is *any* HBP you can hear my TIME dead ball call from a mile away lol.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

If it *HAD* been a HPB, PU would have killed it.  The fact that he didn't tells everyone that it is (or at least to play it as if it were) a live ball.  Too bad for the defense.

 

How do I deal with it?  Tell the coach there's nothing to fix and that we need to get back to the game.  How he acts after that will determine the net steps.

 

And, in FED, you can't get a strike on the batter because he's allowed to leave on a pitch that isn't caught (among other times).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
30 minutes ago, noumpere said:

If it *HAD* been a HPB, PU would have killed it.  The fact that he didn't tells everyone that it is (or at least to play it as if it were) a live ball.  Too bad for the defense.

 

and one would expect the mechanic of HPB and a point to 1B

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
10 minutes ago, maven said:

This one wouldn't. This one would expect "Time!"

you wouldn't after PU called time?  Isn't that what's taught to be done?   Seems nearly every time I've seen a MLB HBP that's what occurs when it's not extremely obvious.

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

My hit by pitch routine makes it obvious.

TIME! Depending on the nuance of the hit... If it just clipped a sleeve for instance I slap  my arm so that everyone knows why/where there was a HBP. If the kid got drilled then I do not do this, no reason.

In any scenario I step out and move between the batter and the pitcher which again conveys that something happened. I deliver or toss a new ball to F1 depending again on the severity of the hit to the batter.... he may need a minute to collect himself. I have never had an issue with a batter going after the pitcher but figure if this routine gets me moving in the right direction for when that day happens then why not practice it? 

All of these actions make it quite clear that something occurred and that play is dead. Now just a B/R heading off like he got hit? How is this different than a batter on ball 3 taking off like it is ball 4? Again that could be a designed play... You could audible "No, No, No! Back in the box" when he takes off... that conveys all the info you need to both the offence and defense. 

 

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
31 minutes ago, Mudisfun said:

My hit by pitch routine makes it obvious.

TIME! Depending on the nuance of the hit... If it just clipped a sleeve for instance I slap  my arm so that everyone knows why/where there was a HBP. If the kid got drilled then I do not do this, no reason.

In any scenario I step out and move between the batter and the pitcher which again conveys that something happened. I deliver or toss a new ball to F1 depending again on the severity of the hit to the batter.... he may need a minute to collect himself. I have never had an issue with a batter going after the pitcher but figure if this routine gets me moving in the right direction for when that day happens then why not practice it? 

All of these actions make it quite clear that something occurred and that play is dead. Now just a B/R heading off like he got hit? How is this different than a batter on ball 3 taking off like it is ball 4? Again that could be a designed play... You could audible "No, No, No! Back in the box" when he takes off... that conveys all the info you need to both the offence and defense. 

 

 

Same routine I use.  Preventive umpiring.

My $.02:  There's no need to hold up the game by letting the batter get all the way to 1B when it's ball three.   He starts to go there just announce the count and bring him back.   No need for a red ass reply.   Designed play?    Ok, whatever.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
4 hours ago, stkjock said:

you wouldn't after PU called time?  Isn't that what's taught to be done?   Seems nearly every time I've seen a MLB HBP that's what occurs when it's not extremely obvious.

The mechanic for HBP is to kill it. That is all.

If I need to sell the HBP call, I might use something more, along the lines of what others have posted. But that's not part of the HBP mechanic, just a tool to sell the call (like pointing at a tag is not part of an out mechanic, just a tool to sell it).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...