Another failed hidden ball trick

[humanbackstop19]

Had the hidden ball trick ran to almost perfection last night in a high school game in MN.  BR doubles to RCF and second baseman held onto ball in his glove.  I was moving over into 'C", and seeing it coming, checked the pitcher and he was on top of the tabletop portion of the mound without the ball.  Sure enough, runner begins taking a lead and second baseman charges over to make the tag in time.  I ruled the ball dead, called the balk, and gave runner third.  DC came out and argued his pitcher was not on the rubber and he saw the play ran on a clip in a minor league game.  I said, "Yup, I saw that one too.  Problem is that's OBR, we're playing FED rules."  I further explained in FED the pitcher can't be in the vicinity of the rubber (within 5 feet I believe) on the dirt portion of the mound.  He took it pretty well, ha.

[maven]

UE karma. Props.

[BrianC14]

Heh.   Sunday afternoon, freshmen game, F1 and F3 tried to pull this off.  Problem was, it came after a foul ball that was hit down the 1B line and fell without being caught.   

F1 goes up on the hill and stands adjacent to the pitcher's plate.  He's turned partway toward 1B, so he can (apparently) 'watch the fun when R1 takes his lead'.  

I'm standing behind the plate, hands on hips, waiting.   Waiting.  Waiting.   F1 gives me this goofy looking, "Aren't I clever?" stare.   I wait, hoping he'll put his foot to the pivot position, whereupon I'd planned to call 'Play', and then immediately, "TIME!  That's a balk!"  Meanwhile, R1 never left the bag, and I finally call out to F1, "Let's go." and F3 sheepishly lobs the ball over to F1.   smh

[Mad Mike]

Question: In FED, if the ball has not yet been put back into play, how can you have a balk when the ball is still technically dead?

[Gfoley4]

also, how could you put the ball back in play if you know he doesn't have the ball?

[stkjock]

22 minutes ago, Gfoley4 said:

also, how could you put the ball back in play if you know he doesn't have the ball?

[BrianC14]

28 minutes ago, Mad Mike said:

Question: In FED, if the ball has not yet been put back into play, how can you have a balk when the ball is still technically dead?

You can't.  Unless they have fooled the umpire.   Bad F1, bad!

[BrianC14]

25 minutes ago, Gfoley4 said:

also, how could you put the ball back in play if you know he doesn't have the ball?

"Oops.   You fooled me, F1.   You don't have the ball? "  It's not nice to fool the umpire.   

[Tborze]

8 hours ago, humanbackstop19 said:

Had the hidden ball trick ran to almost perfection last night in a high school game in MN.  BR doubles to RCF and second baseman held onto ball in his glove.  I was moving over into 'C", and seeing it coming, checked the pitcher and he was on top of the tabletop portion of the mound without the ball.  Sure enough, runner begins taking a lead and second baseman charges over to make the tag in time.  I ruled the ball dead, called the balk, and gave runner third.  DC came out and argued his pitcher was not on the rubber and he saw the play ran on a clip in a minor league game.  I said, "Yup, I saw that one too.  Problem is that's OBR, we're playing FED rules."  I further explained in FED the pitcher can't be in the vicinity of the rubber (within 5 feet I believe) on the dirt portion of the mound.  He took it pretty well, ha.

In FED, it's 5' from the rubber. The dirt portion is another matter discussed in other forums. 

Good call! 

 

[noumpere]

10 hours ago, BrianC14 said:

You can't.  Unless they have fooled the umpire.   Bad F1, bad!

You can't.  Period.

 

Even if they "fooled the umpire," you just rescind the balk call, get the ball back to F1, return the runner, and put the ball in play properly.  That part is the same in all codes.

[Jimurray]

55 minutes ago, noumpere said:

You can't.  Period.

 

Even if they "fooled the umpire," you just rescind the balk call, get the ball back to F1, return the runner, and put the ball in play properly.  That part is the same in all codes.

I agree. But in my tally of umpires being fooled and then balking, all argued that if they were fooled they would balk it. Can't tell if I should add @BrianC14 to that tally. 

[BrianC14]

You guys crack me up.  

 

[humanbackstop19]

12 hours ago, Mad Mike said:

Question: In FED, if the ball has not yet been put back into play, how can you have a balk when the ball is still technically dead?

The ball was never dead. The BR doubled to RCF.  Why would that kill the ball?

[Jimurray]

4 minutes ago, humanbackstop19 said:

The ball was never dead. The BR doubled to RCF.  Why would that kill the ball?

I think he was responding to the@BrianC14 sit. 

[johnnyg08]

13 hours ago, BrianC14 said:

Heh.   Sunday afternoon, freshmen game, F1 and F3 tried to pull this off.  Problem was, it came after a foul ball that was hit down the 1B line and fell without being caught.   

F1 goes up on the hill and stands adjacent to the pitcher's plate.  He's turned partway toward 1B, so he can (apparently) 'watch the fun when R1 takes his lead'.  

I'm standing behind the plate, hands on hips, waiting.   Waiting.  Waiting.   F1 gives me this goofy looking, "Aren't I clever?" stare.   I wait, hoping he'll put his foot to the pivot position, whereupon I'd planned to call 'Play', and then immediately, "TIME!  That's a balk!"  Meanwhile, R1 never left the bag, and I finally call out to F1, "Let's go." and F3 sheepishly lobs the ball over to F1.   smh

I suspect that is where this thread is heading, but you can't run the hidden ball trick out of a dead ball. Nor is there a penalty if the ball was inadvertently pointed and verbalized in play. It's likely been covered already...but I haven't read the entire thread. (All major codes)

It's a "let's go guys, you can't run the hidden ball trick out of a dead ball. Throw the ball back to the pitcher and let's get back to work" 

[BrianC14]

2 hours ago, johnnyg08 said:

I suspect that is where this thread is heading, but you can't run the hidden ball trick out of a dead ball. Nor is there a penalty if the ball was inadvertently pointed and verbalized in play. It's likely been covered already...but I haven't read the entire thread. (All major codes)

It's a "let's go guys, you can't run the hidden ball trick out of a dead ball. Throw the ball back to the pitcher and let's get back to work" 

See my last paragraph.   I kept it to two words to get things rolling again.  

[johnnyg08]

It's not a balk though. We agree right?

[BrianC14]

13 minutes ago, johnnyg08 said:

It's not a balk though. We agree right?

Without question, not a balk.  Not put in play.  Not anything happening.  

[Jimurray]

5 minutes ago, BrianC14 said:

Without question, not a balk.  Not put in play.  Not anything happening.  

So this hope was not in earnest? " I wait, hoping he'll put his foot to the pivot position, whereupon I'd planned to call 'Play', and then immediately, "TIME!  That's a balk!""

[BrianC14]

It must be true, I read it on the internet !   There's a canyon's worth of difference between what I had 'hoped' and 'planned' and what was actually done.    Good grief.

[BrianC14]

Moderators, for the love of all that is baseball, please lock this thread.    

[udbrky]

17 hours ago, BrianC14 said:

Heh.   Sunday afternoon, freshmen game, F1 and F3 tried to pull this off.  Problem was, it came after a foul ball that was hit down the 1B line and fell without being caught.   

F1 goes up on the hill and stands adjacent to the pitcher's plate.  He's turned partway toward 1B, so he can (apparently) 'watch the fun when R1 takes his lead'.  

I'm standing behind the plate, hands on hips, waiting.   Waiting.  Waiting.   F1 gives me this goofy looking, "Aren't I clever?" stare.   I wait, hoping he'll put his foot to the pivot position, whereupon I'd planned to call 'Play', and then immediately, "TIME!  That's a balk!"  Meanwhile, R1 never left the bag, and I finally call out to F1, "Let's go." and F3 sheepishly lobs the ball over to F1.   smh

Don't let it drag. Tell him to throw F1 the ball and nip it in the bud early. This would help shorten games too ....

[scrounge]

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, BrianC14 said:

Moderators, for the love of all that is baseball, please lock this thread.    

There were some of us including a moderator who could not determine if your hope was "tongue in cheek" and your replies have not confirmed that. 

[BrianC14]