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Tag or forced out?


Foxygary
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I am still new to umpiring and I realize this is an easy one for experienced umps but it perplexes me. In LL, Runners on 1st and 2nd. Batter strikes out and both runners begin to steal. Catcher throws to 3rd and R1 goes back to 2nd. 3rd baseman throws to 2nd. R1 is safe. R2 is halfway back to 1st. Could this be a forced out at 1st or does he need to be tagged?

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1 minute ago, Foxygary said:

I am still new to umpiring and I realize this is an easy one for experienced umps but it perplexes me. In LL, Runners on 1st and 2nd. Batter strikes out and both runners begin to steal. Catcher throws to 3rd and R1 goes back to 2nd. R2 is halfway back to 1st. Could this be a forced out at 1st or does he need to be tagged?

A force is only established by the batter becoming a runner. So, unless it was a dropped third strike with two outs, there's no force. 

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8 minutes ago, Foxygary said:

Thanks stk004. It was 2 outs after the strikeout. Catcher did not drop the 3rd strike, but even if he did, batter couldn't run because 1st was already occupied correct?

Batter can run on an uncaught 3rd strike with 1B occupied if there are 2 outs.

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49 minutes ago, Foxygary said:

Thanks stk004. It was 2 outs after the strikeout. Catcher did not drop the 3rd strike, but even if he did, batter couldn't run because 1st was already occupied correct?

Correct. If there had already been two outs, then @MT73 has you covered. The batter can always run on a dropped third strike with two outs. 

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3 hours ago, Foxygary said:

I am still new to umpiring and I realize this is an easy one for experienced umps but it perplexes me. In LL, Runners on 1st and 2nd. Batter strikes out and both runners begin to steal. Catcher throws to 3rd and R1 goes back to 2nd. 3rd baseman throws to 2nd. R1 is safe. R2 is halfway back to 1st. Could this be a forced out at 1st or does he need to be tagged?

You can only be forced forward. And only if the batter becomes a runner which forces other runners to advance. 

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6 hours ago, Foxygary said:

I am still new to umpiring and I realize this is an easy one for experienced umps but it perplexes me. In LL, Runners on 1st (R1) and 2nd (R2). Batter strikes out and both runners begin to steal. Catcher throws to 3rd and R1 R2 goes back to 2nd. 3rd baseman throws to 2nd. R1 R2 is safe. R2 R1 is halfway back to 1st. Could this be a forced out at 1st or does he need to be tagged?

Side note: Fixed it for you. LL uses OBR; it'll help in the future to try and not use the arcane Fed designations for Runners; there are those in and attached to NFHS (Fed) who are trying to make headway in getting designations modernized and uniform to the other rulesets, but it looks like it will take the... "expiration" of certain Fed officials to really get traction.

@Foxygary, most questions can be broken down and answered with another (related) question. In this case, why would R1 and R2 be forced anywhere? Because there is a Batter/Runner (BR) behind them forcing them to the advance base. As you pointed out, the Batter struck out, and thus, there isn't a BR... So... 

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13 hours ago, Foxygary said:

I am still new to umpiring and I realize this is an easy one for experienced umps but it perplexes me. In LL, Runners on 1st and 2nd. Batter strikes out and both runners begin to steal. Catcher throws to 3rd and R1 goes back to 2nd. 3rd baseman throws to 2nd. R1 is safe. R2 is halfway back to 1st. Could this be a forced out at 1st or does he need to be tagged?

You can only be forced forward.  R1 (the runner on first) needs to be tagged when retreating to first, because R2 can always change his mind and try to advance to third base again when the defense is trying to tag out R1.

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