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Foul Tip


DWDIII
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It's only real important with runners on. Players all need to know it wasn't a foul ball and the ball is live. With the bases empty,it acknowledges you know it hit the bat and F2 caught it. It doesn't change play at all. Better to signal it all the time than forget to with runners on. Similar to putting the ball in play after a foul with no one on. Good habits lead to better officiating.

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Another reason for it...

Bad pitch (way high / inside) and it's obviously a ball to all who have eyes.  During the batters attempt to get out of the way the ball "tips" off his bat.  You call him out without the "tip" mechanic and there will probably be some discussion, if not worse.

And here's the same question asked waaaaay back when by me. :D  2013

 

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11 hours ago, maven said:

So, "optics."

Yep.  I once went most of a season without using it (I didn't have the 1% where it matters).  Didn't cause any problems in the games.  Did get me lots of comments from my partners after the games.  The coaches didn't say anything, but given the large number of comments from my partners, my guess is that the coaches were wondering about it.  So, I went back to using it.

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21 hours ago, Richvee said:

It's only real important with runners on. Players all need to know it wasn't a foul ball and the ball is live. With the bases empty,it acknowledges you know it hit the bat and F2 caught it. It doesn't change play at all. Better to signal it all the time than forget to with runners on. Similar to putting the ball in play after a foul with no one on. Good habits lead to better officiating.

I agree, but with this in mind, are umpires instructed/taught to point fair on balls hit to straightaway center...or to call foul on balls hit 26 rows into the third base seats?

I'm reminded of a time I was a volunteer line judge for volleyball and I was only pointing in or out on balls I deemed close - if I thought it was "obvious" I didn't do anything...the only one who gave me any flack was my own kid. :)

 

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23 hours ago, Richvee said:

It's only real important with runners on. Players all need to know it wasn't a foul ball and the ball is live. With the bases empty,it acknowledges you know it hit the bat and F2 caught it. It doesn't change play at all. Better to signal it all the time than forget to with runners on. Similar to putting the ball in play after a foul with no one on. Good habits lead to better officiating.

My foul tip signal is so slow — almost as slow as my foul ball signal — that it would not provide info to runners in "real time." I'm probably giving it after the call at 2B.

Any runner who adjusts his action to check out the PU's call on the pitch needs better coaching.

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3 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

I agree, but with this in mind, are umpires instructed/taught to point fair on balls hit to straightaway center...or to call foul on balls hit 26 rows into the third base seats?

I'm reminded of a time I was a volunteer line judge for volleyball and I was only pointing in or out on balls I deemed close - if I thought it was "obvious" I didn't do anything...the only one who gave me any flack was my own kid. :)

 

 

1 hour ago, maven said:

My foul tip signal is so slow — almost as slow as my foul ball signal — that it would not provide info to runners in "real time." I'm probably giving it after the call at 2B.

Any runner who adjusts his action to check out the PU's call on the pitch needs better coaching.

I get it. However I do think the signal also informs everyone "I know it hit the bat, and it's not a foul ball, it's live."

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11 hours ago, Richvee said:

I get it. However I do think the signal also informs everyone "I know it hit the bat, and it's not a foul ball, it's live."

Sure: I think you should verbalize that, too, Rich, so that everyone knows you're paying attention. :D

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16 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

I'm reminded of a time I was a volunteer line judge for volleyball and I was only pointing in or out on balls I deemed close - if I thought it was "obvious" I didn't do anything.

I do this, too. R1 (in volleyball, that's "Referee 1" - the "up" ref) usually says to do it that way. My rule-of-thumb is about 3 feet inside/outside the lines.

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More than optics. What if the runner is stealing on a straight steal. He hears it then hit the bat. He sees you signal foul tip this meaning he can stay there. Maybe if you don't signal he thinks it is a foul ball and heads back to first. Then you have a crap storm with a live ball on your hands.

Why do you signal fair but not say anything? I mean why not only signal fouls balls and be audible and if you don't signal then we know it is fair.

When you have a third strike and ring a kid up OR a swinging third strike and the ball is caught by the catcher, do you ever signal or say OUT?

A pick-off happens, kid is way safe. 1B puts a tag on him, do you show safe casually since a tag occurred?

We don't need to on can of corn nobody out. We don't do it on a clean hit to RC.

It is about optics, being in the game, letting people know we got this when things happen. 

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4 hours ago, kylehutson said:

I do this, too. R1 (in volleyball, that's "Referee 1" - the "up" ref) usually says to do it that way. My rule-of-thumb is about 3 feet inside/outside the lines.

The proper mechanic is to signal every time the ball is down. For line judges who do not call matches on a regular basis, it gets them in the habit of thinking about where the ball hits the floor so that when the ball is on or near the line, they can simply react with the proper signal rather than give the ole in... I mean out... I mean in... oh heck I don't know what I mean to say! 

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