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JSam21

Stoping motion with no runners on.

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1 hour ago, dumbdumb said:

Isn't a tie something that is worn with a suit?

Since there have only been 12 ties/dead heats in American Horse Racing History, it would be analytically safe to assume that when one has that situation in baseball, the call should be to raise that right hand for the out and say that is not a tie and get all but 12 of the gazillion calls correct, rather than be sorry for spreading the arms apart for the safe call and saying that the play is a tie and getting only 12 calls out of a gazillion correct.

As to the OP, I can offer no words of wisdom or statistical analysis.

On a safe call you would say the ball or tag did not beat the runner which is what the OBR rules require at 1B and a forced base. If you call it out and say the runner did not beat the ball a coach, not @Rich Ives or @beerguy55, :)could protest it. So the out call should be that the ball beat the runner. But I wouldn't worry about a protest happening. While it's a semantic argument that should have no relationship to real baseball, MLB did recognize an inconsistency in their wording at a forced base and 1B and changed one to match the other quite a few years ago. While they could have semantically changed one to a tie goes to the fielder they chose instead to change the other to a tie goes to runner.  They must have had a reason for that.

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5 hours ago, dumbdumb said:

Isn't a tie something that is worn with a suit?

Since there have only been 12 ties/dead heats in American Horse Racing History, it would be analytically safe to assume that when one has that situation in baseball, the call should be to raise that right hand for the out and say that is not a tie and get all but 12 of the gazillion calls correct, rather than be sorry for spreading the arms apart for the safe call and saying that the play is a tie and getting only 12 calls out of a gazillion correct.

As to the OP, I can offer no words of wisdom or statistical analysis.

The arguments against ties in baseball usually degrade into looking at the event in millionths of a second so you could also do the same to those horse races. For all practical purposes there are ties.

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On 1/1/2019 at 11:38 AM, dumbdumb said:

Isn't a tie something that is worn with a suit?

Since there have only been 12 ties/dead heats in American Horse Racing History, it would be analytically safe to assume that when one has that situation in baseball, the call should be to raise that right hand for the out and say that is not a tie and get all but 12 of the gazillion calls correct, rather than be sorry for spreading the arms apart for the safe call and saying that the play is a tie and getting only 12 calls out of a gazillion correct.

As to the OP, I can offer no words of wisdom or statistical analysis.

I don't disagree (though I'm sure the gamblers and bookies would have some input into whether or not they want dead heats)....but....

As the camera and timing technology get better those dead heats will disappear too.  I've said it before - as far as I know the Olympics have ties to sometimes two, and usually three decimal places...in ALL race events - from the 50 meter swim sprint to the 50 km cross country ski.   If they can live with ties, baseball can live with ties.  And I truly hope they never go to four, five and six decimal places. 

Do we really want to get to a point where instant replay zooms in to 6000x, with 64k supreme-extreme-high definition to determine if the ball beat the runner? 

At that point you're arguing at the molecular level, and then I'd argue that at the molecular level objects never actually touch - so a ball is never caught, a tag is never made, and a runner never touches any base - and we'd have to cancel baseball altogether.   

I myself prefer the language in FED and softball, which, to paraphrase, say the runner is out if tagged while not in contact with the base.   I think it is more simple, and is more in line with the historical spirit of the game.  That is, if you're touching the (proper) base, you're safe.  And, in a tie, you're touching the base.  Ergo, tie goes to the runner.

I know umps want outs.  The fans want runs.  As @Jimurray alludes, you can't say "it was a tie" because you just create a sh!tstorm - but I have no problem with an umpire in his head ruling it a tie and then simply saying "he was there".  In reality, I don't really care if the ump is right or wrong at that point - if the call is truly that close the coach shouldn't be arguing, at all.  If a coach utters the word tie he should be bitch slapped.   As a coach, I wasn't saying a word to an umpire if the runner was out/safe by less than half a step (and more often than not it was a full step before I was asking him to talk to his partner) - it didn't mean I was right, but I better be certain, in my mind, it was an "obvious" miss - and no coach should be arguing "it was obviously a tie"....and this is where I segue into MLB replay rules - it should be "obvious" before challenging - meaning no phone calls, no TV's in the dugout - you have ten seconds to challenge - your player should be adamant the call was wrong (and he better be right)...and if the umps/head office can't see any reason to overturn the call in 15 seconds, the call stands.   Because, back to my original point, I dread the day where advanced technology allows for replay reviews to the microscopic level.

 

 

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