Baseball inside jersey

[Guest Matt]

My son is on second base with his teammate on third base as the batting team.  The opposing pitcher makes a pick-off move to second base.  He throws the ball in the dirt and somehow the ball ends up *inside* of my son's jersey.  As he stands up on second base, he reaches into the top of his jersey, pulls out the baseball, and hands it to the field umpire.  

After consulting for a minute, the home plate and field umpire award home to both the runner on third and the runner (my son) on second because: 1) apparently the pitcher "balked" on his move to second (that's one base advancement), and 2) the ball inside the jersey was considered an out of play ball (that's the second base that was awarded).  

Did the umpires make the correct call?  

[Tborze]

6 hours ago, Guest Matt said:

My son is on second base with his teammate on third base as the batting team.  The opposing pitcher makes a pick-off move to second base.  He throws the ball in the dirt and somehow the ball ends up *inside* of my son's jersey.  As he stands up on second base, he reaches into the top of his jersey, pulls out the baseball, and hands it to the field umpire.  

After consulting for a minute, the home plate and field umpire award home to both the runner on third and the runner (my son) on second because: 1) apparently the pitcher "balked" on his move to second (that's one base advancement), and 2) the ball inside the jersey was considered an out of play ball (that's the second base that was awarded).  

Did the umpires make the correct call?  

If a balk wasn't called, if any runner would have been attempting to advance when the ball became dead, they would have received that base. If they were not attempting to advance, which sounds like they weren't, they would remain, which in this case would have been 2nd and 3rd. There is a difference in lodging in an offensive players uniform vs defenses or umpires. 

In your play, as others have said, enforce the balk. 1 run scores, your son goes to 3rd. 

[Stk004]

The conditions for a balk to be ignored have not been met because the batter did not acquire first base by the ball lodging in R2's jersey. Enforce the balk, R3 scores, R2 moves to third. 

[noumpere]

There are no (?)  "cumulative awards" -- enforce the balk only.

 

That said, I'd like to know how F1 balked.

[scrounge]

Are you sure it wasn't just a 2 base award for a throw out of play/lodged in uniform? Did they announce/explain a balk and then a tacked-on award or is this just assuming a balk after seeing 2 bases awarded?

[Jimurray]

How bout we narrow down the rule code? Assuming FED, the ball was either dead on the balk and a one base award or no balk and dead on the offensive player lodge and no base award as per @Tborze.

Assuming OBR, after killing the ball due to being lodged, the umpires used CSAFP and determined that the ball would have gone into CF and R2would have made it home. Or not.

[noumpere]

12 hours ago, Tborze said:

If a balk wasn't called, if any runner would have been attempting to advance when the ball became dead, they would have received that base. If they were not attempting to advance, which sounds like they weren't, they would remain, which in this case would have been 2nd and 3rd. There is a difference in lodging in an offensive players uniform vs defenses or umpires. 

In your play, as others have said, enforce the balk. 1 run scores, your son goes to 3rd. 

That's the FED rule, but I don't think it' the OBR rule.  In NCAA, and I think in OBR, bases are awarded at the discretion of the umpire either way.  I could be wrong. 

 

Most questions in the "newbie" section are OBR-based, unless specified.

[LRZ]

13 hours ago, Jimurray said:

CSAFP

What does this mean? Common sense and [something]?

[Jimurray]

8 minutes ago, LRZ said:

What does this mean? Common sense and [something]?

Fair play.

[Tborze]

4 hours ago, noumpere said:

That's the FED rule, but I don't think it' the OBR rule.  In NCAA, and I think in OBR, bases are awarded at the discretion of the umpire either way.  I could be wrong. 

 

Most questions in the "newbie" section are OBR-based, unless specified.

As @Jimurray has pointed out, you are correct. 

 

17 hours ago, Jimurray said:

How bout we narrow down the rule code? Assuming FED, the ball was either dead on the balk and a one base award or no balk and dead on the offensive player lodge and no base award as per @Tborze.

Assuming OBR, after killing the ball due to being lodged, the umpires used CSAFP and determined that the ball would have gone into CF and R2would have made it home. Or not.

In OBR, is the award different if the throw was from the rubber?

[Jimurray]

3 hours ago, Tborze said:

As @Jimurray has pointed out, you are correct. 

 

In OBR, is the award different if the throw was from the rubber?

In OBR the award is always CSAFP per PBUC/MLBUM. 

[Guest Matt]

What i'm actually most curious about is the lodged ball inside my son's jersey.  If we assume there is no balk on the play, and the ball lodges inside the baserunner's uniform (as he dives back into second base (having already reached second base on the prior play), what's the right call?  Does the player simply reach inside his jersey, return the ball, and play resumes with him on second base?  Does the baserunner advance for any reason based on the ball finding its way into his jersey?  Other?  I've just never seen a ball get lodged inside a baserunners jersey (either on a thrown ball or a batted ball), and i'm extremely curious what the right call is for a ball lodged into a baserunner's jersey under the various circumstances for which it could become lodged.  

Noumpere states above that the rules are different for a ball lodging inside an offensive players uniform vs. a defensive player's uniform vs. an umpire's uniform?  What exactly are the rules for baseballs lodging inside a shirt/uniform in the different circumstances (e.g., a baserunner on a thrown ball)?  

[noumpere]

On 3/31/2017 at 7:47 PM, Guest Matt said:

 

baserunner's uniform (as he dives back into second base (having already reached second base on the prior play), what's the right call?  Does the player simply reach inside his jersey, return the ball, and play resumes with him on second base?  Does the baserunner advance for any reason based on the ball finding its way into his jersey?  Other?  I've just never seen a ball get lodged inside a baserunners jersey (either on a thrown ball or a batted ball), and i'm extremely curious what the right call is for a ball lodged into a baserunner's jersey under the various circumstances for which it could become lodged.  

Noumpere states above that the rules are different for a ball lodging inside an offensive players uniform vs. a defensive player's uniform vs. an umpire's uniform?  What exactly are the rules for baseballs lodging inside a shirt/uniform in the different circumstances (e.g., a baserunner on a thrown ball)?  

Call time. Make any award. Get he ball out. Return it to the pitcher. Resume play. 

 

In FED. If it's the offense uniform-- runner advances one base if he was advancing on the play. In the OP he wasn't advancing so no award. If it's the defenses uniform award either way. 

 

In NCAA and OBR the umpire judges "what would have happened" and makes that award if any. No outs can occur. 

[Richvee]

FED rule for thrown ball lodging in a DEFENSIVE player's equipment or uniform is 2 bases....

c. two bases if a fair batted or thrown ball becomes dead because of bouncing over or passing through a fence, or lodges in a defensive player's or umpire's equipment or uniform;

Perhaps the umpires were thinking of this.^^^^^ As  opposed to this \/ \/ \/

f. one base beyond the last legally acquired base, if in the umpire's judgment the runner was attempting to advance at the time the ball becomes lodged in an offensive player's uniform or equipment. If the lodged ball occurs during play when the batter-runner was attempting to reach first base, the batter-runner will be awarded first base. Preceding runners will be awarded bases needed to complete the award.