shape up or ship out

[dumbdumb]

Here we go from this particular State in baseball/softball.

 

https://laurinburgexchange.com/sports/8958/nchsaa-cracking-down-on-discipline-in-baseball-softball

[umpstu]

I like it.

[VolUmp]

The article doesn't make very clear that these "rule changes" are mostly, if not all, local adoptions. I didn't see anything in this article directly from FED.

I'll have to say, since I'm from a bordering state to the west, that our State Director is pretty fed up (see what I did there) with the lack of discipline in our teams & coaches in baseball. I don't pay attention to softball, but we've had fights that have brought the death penalty to some schools.

[ElkOil]

8 minutes ago, VolUmp said:

The article doesn't make very clear that these "rule changes" are mostly, if not all, local adoptions. I didn't see anything in this article directly from FED.

The opening sentence is " The North Carolina High School Athletic Association recently enacted a zero tolerance discipline policy..."

[Umpire in Chief]

Being a former HS umpire in NC, The NCHSAA has done some interesting things in the past. 

War Paint comes to mind....

I like the theory behind the action:

Quote

“What’s happened over the years, if a coach becomes upset it has bled over to the fans,” he said. “The belief is, with coaches being more calm, fans will become more calm. This is radically different than what we’ve done in the past.”

But, I think this may be taking it a step too far. IMO as umpires we need to be approachable and having a rule like this doesn't set the best tone. I don't want a coach to loose his opportunity to discuss a play or situation. 

[lawump]

To be clear, this is a North Carolina drafted and enacted rule.  It applies to them, only.  It is not a FED rule.

Having said that, I umpired in North Carolina for two years.  Neil Buie is a fantastic assignor!  I also umpired about 20-25 games with this guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brad_Allen when he was still just working high school football (and baseball) games.  Goes to show, you never know where your partner may be in 15 years! LOL.

[dumbdumb]

3 hours ago, lawump said:

To be clear, this is a North Carolina drafted and enacted rule.  It applies to them, only.  It is not a FED rule.

Having said that, I umpired in North Carolina for two years.  Neil Buie is a fantastic assignor!  I also umpired about 20-25 games with this guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brad_Allen when he was still just working high school football (and baseball) games.  Goes to show, you never know where your partner may be in 15 years! LOL.

So, does his (Brad Allen's), back judge go by the name of Hercules, Jr. ???????????????? with the biceps to prove it????????. Inquiring minds want to know.

And, you sissy, are you a football ref now or what??? Make a decision one way or the other. So, did you work a plate job this weekend or were you on holiday going from 3rd to 2nd to 1st. How are those hamstrings???????? Don't rub it????????

[lawump]

16 hours ago, dumbdumb said:

So, does his (Brad Allen's), back judge go by the name of Hercules, Jr. ???????????????? with the biceps to prove it????????. Inquiring minds want to know.

And, you sissy, are you a football ref now or what??? Make a decision one way or the other. So, did you work a plate job this weekend or were you on holiday going from 3rd to 2nd to 1st. How are those hamstrings???????? Don't rub it????????

I'm a baseball only guy!

I had to turn in my first series this past weekend because I got the flu.  I was in bed for 5 days (Wednesday-Friday).  Fever, runny nose, sore throat, etc., etc., etc.

It sucked!  Ready to go this weekend!

[scrounge]

On 2/17/2017 at 4:21 PM, Umpire in Chief said:

But, I think this may be taking it a step too far. IMO as umpires we need to be approachable and having a rule like this doesn't set the best tone. I don't want a coach to loose his opportunity to discuss a play or situation. 

I dunno, this rule didn't come out of a vacuum. Is it a blunt instrument? Perhaps...but I'm not so sure. Approachable doesn't have to mean "stop the game while I demand your attention, Mr. Umpire". What other sport allows the coach to halt play to come out onto the playing surface for an explanation? Just because it's always been done this way? Are we going to bring back the batter requesting a high ball vs a low ball or a HR counting if it clears the fence on one bounce?

To me, being approachable means open to a valid request for information and calmly, concisely giving that information. Like in other sports, a quick chat off the field or during the next break will suffice. They earned this rule - they can live with it IMO. Frankly, I wouldn't mind seeing the days of a coach coming onto the field end altogether in school-based ball.

[Stk004]

3 hours ago, scrounge said:

I dunno, this rule didn't come out of a vacuum. Is it a blunt instrument? Perhaps...but I'm not so sure. Approachable doesn't have to mean "stop the game while I demand your attention, Mr. Umpire". What other sport allows the coach to halt play to come out onto the playing surface for an explanation? Just because it's always been done this way? Are we going to bring back the batter requesting a high ball vs a low ball or a HR counting if it clears the fence on one bounce?

To me, being approachable means open to a valid request for information and calmly, concisely giving that information. Like in other sports, a quick chat off the field or during the next break will suffice. They earned this rule - they can live with it IMO. Frankly, I wouldn't mind seeing the days of a coach coming onto the field end altogether in school-based ball.

I think part of this is how remarkably complex the rules of baseball are. Especially with coaches who we all know don't read the rule book, when something weird happens they're going to be confused and want an explanation. Now, if they're coming out to argue for argument's sake, that's a different story. 

[scrounge]

20 minutes ago, Stk004 said:

I think part of this is how remarkably complex the rules of baseball are. Especially with coaches who we all know don't read the rule book, when something weird happens they're going to be confused and want an explanation. Now, if they're coming out to argue for argument's sake, that's a different story. 

I don't think they're any more complicated than football - I'd say less so. And football has to contend with much more meaningful differences between levels (the differences in penalty administration like intentional grounding, pass interference, etc) that everyone thinks apply on Fridays because they see it on Saturdays and Sundays. And, at least around here, it's much more high profile and scrutinized, with the attendant pressure on getting things right. And we don't let coaches come out on the field to argue/get an explanation there. Sure, admittedly there's a wing official on the sideline, but the explanation isn't by any means immediate, especially if the call was made on the other side.

I have no problem explaining things, and have no problem going over to them. But I also don't think that there's some inherent reason they should be able to come out on the playing field either, just because it's always been done that way.

[Ricci67]

This is my first year umpiring, and I'm in NC. Our assignor has mentioned many times that this isn't a license to go canning coaches. He also mentioned that an AC on 1B watching a banger and going "No Way!!" Or some similar outburst Is NOT protesting the call and ejectable under the rule. I think the worst part about the rule is that a coach can't talk to the BU about anything, all contact must go through the PU.

[BT_Blue]

4 hours ago, Ricci67 said:

This is my first year umpiring, and I'm in NC. Our assignor has mentioned many times that this isn't a license to go canning coaches. He also mentioned that an AC on 1B watching a banger and going "No Way!!" Or some similar outburst Is not protesting the call and ejectable under the rule. I think the worst part about the rule is that a coach can't talk to the BU about anything, all contact must go through the PU.

That's a bit brutal!

I remember back when I was working games in Los Angeles, if you dumped a head coach in a CIF-LA Section game the game was done. Everyone went home.

Any of our LA people on here can let me know if this is still the case? I love this rule. But also knew it was a hammer not often wielded. 

[Mudisfun]

I am in the Orange County unit and we don't stop the game for dumping the HC unless he is the only coach at the game. I have not heard of this with any of the association members I know who also are in the Long Beach unit so I am thinking this may no longer be in effect.

On 2/23/2017 at 0:10 PM, BT_Blue said:

That's a bit brutal!

I remember back when I was working games in Los Angeles, if you dumped a head coach in a CIF-LA Section game the game was done. Everyone went home.

Any of our LA people on here can let me know if this is still the case? I love this rule. But also knew it was a hammer not often wielded.