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3 man system question

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Just now, Haid D' Salaami said:

I just got so confused by what you said...

1. Do you mean with no runners on base?

2. we were talking about R2 & R3

I'm talking about 2nd or 2/3rd with 2 outs.

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18 minutes ago, kanedog said:

In addition to what Haid says, if the ball is hit to RF I'm staying on the line so I don't interfere with the throw.  If it's hit to CF or LF, U3 busts it into the coaches box to get out of the way.  U1 takes BR at 1st and 2nd.

As always, we pregame this specifically just so we can anticipate this during the game.

Ok.. Look.. U3 is already indide in the "C" position, U1 is on the 1st baseline. so as U1 you have 3 choices

1. Go to the coaches box on the 1st base side. 

2. Go out

3. Go inside and take BR

these are your only choices..

 

So if we pregames and were going to as U1 take Br into 2nd base, no i have 2 choices .. GO OUT, OR GO IN...  it is that simple.

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On 11/10/2016 at 5:16 PM, grayhawk said:

Incidentally, I had a good reverse rotation play in a game on Monday.  I was U1 with R1 and R2.  Base hit to center field and F8 comes up firing to home.  The throw is late and F2 throws to second to get the BR advancing.  I went inside, watched the BR's touch at first and read his advance on the throw to the plate.  I was on the 1B side of the 2B cutout (basically the same position as a steal when starting in B) for a great look at the tag on the BR sliding to the outside of the base.

I had pre-pitched where I was going, but was really prepared because I was late going in on a previous play with R1 and R2 with a routine fly ball hit to left that was dropped.  R1 went halfway and the BR stopped short of passing him but since I went in late, I didn't have a great angle on the potential passing (it wasn't close, but what if it had been), and would have been chasing the BR if he ended up advancing to second (which he didn't).

Nailed one, and hosed one.  Glad the one I hosed didn't blow up.

Stay on the outside and rim it. It's a much better view and you have everything in front of you. With multiple runners and a ball hit to the outfield, the defense will almost always cut the ball on the infield so your throw will most likely come from the infield and staying on the outside will keep ball, bag and runner all in front of you. 

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1 hour ago, MidAmUmp said:

Stay on the outside and rim it. It's a much better view and you have everything in front of you. With multiple runners and a ball hit to the outfield, the defense will almost always cut the ball on the infield so your throw will most likely come from the infield and staying on the outside will keep ball, bag and runner all in front of you. 

Thanks and great advice.  I'm trying to get 30 three man games in before the BBUC camp next year, so this is definitely something to work on.

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Stay on the outside and rim it. It's a much better view and you have everything in front of you. With multiple runners and a ball hit to the outfield, the defense will almost always cut the ball on the infield so your throw will most likely come from the infield and staying on the outside will keep ball, bag and runner all in front of you. 

As in cut straight across the deep part of the infield from A through F4's standard position? And work to the outfield edges of 2B?

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2 minutes ago, ALStripes17 said:

As in cut straight across the deep part of the infield from A through F4's standard position? And work to the outfield edges of 2B?

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yes.. but what Midamump told you is a little advance move... do it if you feel comforable.. if not go inside and take the play from the cutout...

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yes.. but what Midamump told you is a little advance move... do it if you feel comforable.. if not go inside and take the play from the cutout...

Understood. Just making sure I read that correctly.

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Just now, ALStripes17 said:

Understood. Just making sure I read that correctly.

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this is referred to rimming.. But like i said... practice it in a scrimmage a few times.. once you get it down, it's easy to use.

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this is referred to rimming.. But like i said... practice it in a scrimmage a few times.. once you get it down, it's easy to use.

Good stuff.

Would this be similar to an R2 only (U1 in B), ground ball to F6 who throws to first to retire BR and F3 throws behind the R2 at 2B?

I have seen some fame videos show the U1 rim out, make the call at first, and be on the outside of 2B for the throw behind.

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yes this is the same.. but in the last play you talked about.. U1 has to get a good angle for the play at 1st.. Be careful to not leave to early for the play at 1st.. if they throw back at 2nd, you'll be out of position cause you over committed to the play at 1st...

 

does that make sense?

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58 minutes ago, Haid D' Salaami said:

yes this is the same.. but in the last play you talked about.. U1 has to get a good angle for the play at 1st.. Be careful to not leave to early for the play at 1st.. if they throw back at 2nd, you'll be out of position cause you over committed to the play at 1st...

 

does that make sense?

And of course, this is only possible on ground balls hit to the left side (such as your example of the ball hit to F6) where U1 is already working his angle on the outside for the play at first.  Anything hit to the right forces U1 to move in to get the angle and stay out of the way.

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12 minutes ago, grayhawk said:

And of course, this is only possible on ground balls hit to the left side (such as your example of the ball hit to F6) where U1 is already working his angle on the outside for the play at first.  Anything hit to the right forces U1 to move in to get the angle and stay out of the way.

Spoke to a AAA umpire this year (who has worked 100+ regular season MLB games).  When U1 is in "B", with an R2 only and a ground ball is hit to the left (F5 or F6) they do not want the base umpire crossing out onto the infield dirt to get an angle for the play at first.  They feel it takes him out of position for a second play at second base...which is the exact opposite of what you guys are saying.  I think they feel that at that level, the game is too fast and that the umpire could get in the way of a throw from F3 to F4/F6 on a throw behind at second base against R2.  Either that, or they feel that U1's angle for the play at second just won't be that good if he has obtained a proper angle for a play at first. 

Not saying that I agree or disagree.  Just thought I'd throw in what MiLBUD is teaching: U1 takes the play at first on the infield grass (just like in a 2-man) and then busts toward the second base cutout if there is a throw behind R2 at second base.

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8 hours ago, lawump said:

Spoke to a AAA umpire this year (who has worked 100+ regular season MLB games).  When U1 is in "B", with an R2 only and a ground ball is hit to the left (F5 or F6) they do not want the base umpire crossing out onto the infield dirt to get an angle for the play at first.  They feel it takes him out of position for a second play at second base...which is the exact opposite of what you guys are saying.  I think they feel that at that level, the game is too fast and that the umpire could get in the way of a throw from F3 to F4/F6 on a throw behind at second base against R2.  Either that, or they feel that U1's angle for the play at second just won't be that good if he has obtained a proper angle for a play at first. 

Not saying that I agree or disagree.  Just thought I'd throw in what MiLBUD is teaching: U1 takes the play at first on the infield grass (just like in a 2-man) and then busts toward the second base cutout if there is a throw behind R2 at second base.

Interesting.  With a throw to first from F6 (especially if he's ranging to his left), being on the infield grass makes you're almost straight lined with the throw.  I sure like the angle from the infield dirt much better on a play like that.  I can see how being inside would be a good position for the throw back from F3, especially if F4 is taking the throw.

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6 hours ago, lawump said:

Spoke to a AAA umpire this year (who has worked 100+ regular season MLB games).  When U1 is in "B", with an R2 only and a ground ball is hit to the left (F5 or F6) they do not want the base umpire crossing out onto the infield dirt to get an angle for the play at first.  They feel it takes him out of position for a second play at second base...which is the exact opposite of what you guys are saying.  I think they feel that at that level, the game is too fast and that the umpire could get in the way of a throw from F3 to F4/F6 on a throw behind at second base against R2.  Either that, or they feel that U1's angle for the play at second just won't be that good if he has obtained a proper angle for a play at first. 

Not saying that I agree or disagree.  Just thought I'd throw in what MiLBUD is teaching: U1 takes the play at first on the infield grass (just like in a 2-man) and then busts toward the second base cutout if there is a throw behind R2 at second base.

We worked this system on the Cape this summer. Starting in deep B, it is easy to slide into the dirt to get a good angle for the play at 1B. I was told - be in position for the actual play as a priority and if the "what if" play happens do what you can to see it. Basically concentrate on the play and worry about the odd plays as they come up. Like he said above, the speed of the game is so fast, you need to be out of the way of the throw, and the runner will be hustling down the line. I had a few chances to do this, and it does make it much easier to see the play at 1st.

Think about it, if the ball moves the fielders towards 2B, it will hold the runner until after the throw. That is a great scenario for the defense. If he does go after the throw then U3 is in a good spot to call it. You really need to read the 1st baseman to get to 2B for an angle.

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6 hours ago, lawump said:

Spoke to a AAA umpire this year (who has worked 100+ regular season MLB games).  When U1 is in "B", with an R2 only and a ground ball is hit to the left (F5 or F6) they do not want the base umpire crossing out onto the infield dirt to get an angle for the play at first.  They feel it takes him out of position for a second play at second base...which is the exact opposite of what you guys are saying.  I think they feel that at that level, the game is too fast and that the umpire could get in the way of a throw from F3 to F4/F6 on a throw behind at second base against R2.  Either that, or they feel that U1's angle for the play at second just won't be that good if he has obtained a proper angle for a play at first. 

Not saying that I agree or disagree.  Just thought I'd throw in what MiLBUD is teaching: U1 takes the play at first on the infield grass (just like in a 2-man) and then busts toward the second base cutout if there is a throw behind R2 at second base.

They .. MiLB.. but if you talk to the Big guys on the west Coast.. AKA the CWS umpires .. they want you to...I will say the same as you... I will not agree or disagree.LOL

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11 hours ago, lawump said:

Spoke to a AAA umpire this year (who has worked 100+ regular season MLB games).  When U1 is in "B", with an R2 only and a ground ball is hit to the left (F5 or F6) they do not want the base umpire crossing out onto the infield dirt to get an angle for the play at first.  They feel it takes him out of position for a second play at second base...which is the exact opposite of what you guys are saying.  I think they feel that at the MLB level, when they have to revert to 3man, the game is too fast and that the umpire could too slow in some cases and get in the way of a throw from F3 to F4/F6 on a throw behind at second base against R2.  Either that, or they feel that U1's angle for the play at second just won't be that good if he has obtained a proper angle for a play at first. 

Not saying that I agree or disagree.  Just thought I'd throw in what MiLBUD is teaching: U1 takes the play at first on the infield grass (just like in a 2-man) and then busts toward the second base cutout if there is a throw behind R2 at second base.

Both mechanics could be correct.

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11 hours ago, lawump said:

Spoke to a AAA umpire this year (who has worked 100+ regular season MLB games).  When U1 is in "B", with an R2 only and a ground ball is hit to the left (F5 or F6) they do not want the base umpire crossing out onto the infield dirt to get an angle for the play at first.  They feel it takes him out of position for a second play at second base...which is the exact opposite of what you guys are saying.  I think they feel that at that level, the game is too fast and that the umpire could get in the way of a throw from F3 to F4/F6 on a throw behind at second base against R2.  Either that, or they feel that U1's angle for the play at second just won't be that good if he has obtained a proper angle for a play at first. 

Not saying that I agree or disagree.  Just thought I'd throw in what MiLBUD is teaching: U1 takes the play at first on the infield grass (just like in a 2-man) and then busts toward the second base cutout if there is a throw behind R2 at second base.

This would be a real good example of pause-read-react on a ground ball. If you read R2 breaking for 3rd on contact, move into the dirt towards 1st base for an angle. If you read R2 holding, maybe move into the grass and let the throw turn you to 1st. 

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On 11/15/2016 at 8:26 PM, MidAmUmp said:

This would be a real good example of pause-read-react on a ground ball. If you read R2 breaking for 3rd on contact, move into the dirt towards 1st base for an angle. If you read R2 holding, maybe move into the grass and let the throw turn you to 1st. 

similarly, if the SS has to range far to his left, is there a point where you read that and get a better angle from the grass than by sliding out, where you might end up closer to the throwing lane?

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2 hours ago, alex7 said:

similarly, if the SS has to range far to his left, is there a point where you read that and get a better angle from the grass than by sliding out, where you might end up closer to the throwing lane?

To my understanding... that cut off is, do you cross the path of the throw to get to your spot out towards where F4 would normally play? If so... then stay on the grass.

Also, are you going to have to snap your head around as the throw passes you? If so... stay on the grass.:2cents:

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