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Thawk

The lengths parents go to

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So on I Sunday I dumped a parent dressed up as a coach for arguing balls and strikes while he was sitting behind homeplate operating the scoreboard.  When I did dump him, I said to him "Coach, you need to go."  He promptly replied "I'm not a coach, I'm just the scoreboard guy.  You can't eject me!".  I replied with "You're wearing the coaching uniform, so I'm gonna treat you like a coach.  you need to go."

Oh the lengths that some parents will go to.

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I'm not sure why you would even give this guy the time of day?  He's on the other side of the fence.  If he becomes a problem, which apparently he did, go to the home team coach and have him handle it.  If he doesn't, put the burden on him and let him know he'll be the one taking a hike if he doesn't quite him down.  Nothing good can come from talking to "fans" thru a fence regarding this type of behavior.  Just my opinion.

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I'm struggling to see the logistics of how this could have properly been done.  Did you acknowledge, warn, then eject?  If you do any of those steps to someone outside the fence, you are only empowering them - saying "your opinion matters and is worthy of a response" which it certainly isn't.   However, if he/she is an actual coach on the field and you don't go through that progression, you were too quick with your hook (unless he did or said something to warrant skipping steps).  Either way, tell the actual coach that he needs to shut it down, especially if the dude is in uniform and/or operating the scoreboard.  You deal with head coaches only... 

Not saying that the guy didn't deserve to get dumped, I just don't think the "you're dressed as a coach, so I'm treating you like a coach" is the correct way to go about it.  

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3 hours ago, conbo61 said:

"Don't talk to the fence."

Also " Don't argue with idiots.  They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience".

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21 hours ago, MPLSMatt said:

I'm struggling to see the logistics of how this could have properly been done.  Did you acknowledge, warn, then eject?  If you do any of those steps to someone outside the fence, you are only empowering them - saying "your opinion matters and is worthy of a response" which it certainly isn't.   However, if he/she is an actual coach on the field and you don't go through that progression, you were too quick with your hook (unless he did or said something to warrant skipping steps).  Either way, tell the actual coach that he needs to shut it down, especially if the dude is in uniform and/or operating the scoreboard.  You deal with head coaches only... 

Not saying that the guy didn't deserve to get dumped, I just don't think the "you're dressed as a coach, so I'm treating you like a coach" is the correct way to go about it.  

No acknowledgment other than to warn him, and then dumped him in relatively short order.  Was I quick, eh maybe.  However, when I went to HC to tell him, the response I got was "thank you, we have problems with him all the time".  I asked why his league doesn't deal with it.  HC's response to me was that they really needed a pile of paperwork to deal with him.  In my mind I thought "Got one more piece of paperwork coming your way then."

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21 hours ago, MPLSMatt said:

I'm struggling to see the logistics of how this could have properly been done.  Did you acknowledge, warn, then eject?  If you do any of those steps to someone outside the fence, you are only empowering them - saying "your opinion matters and is worthy of a response" which it certainly isn't.   However, if he/she is an actual coach on the field and you don't go through that progression, you were too quick with your hook (unless he did or said something to warrant skipping steps).  Either way, tell the actual coach that he needs to shut it down, especially if the dude is in uniform and/or operating the scoreboard.  You deal with head coaches only... 

Not saying that the guy didn't deserve to get dumped, I just don't think the "you're dressed as a coach, so I'm treating you like a coach" is the correct way to go about it.  

Acknowledge, warn and eject is for the head coach.  All others don't get that much rope.

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On 5/17/2016 at 1:37 PM, conbo61 said:

"Don't talk to the fence."

That's true.  But if the guy is working the scoreboard, he has a status somewhere between Real Coach and fan.  "The nail that sticks up gets hammered down."

Hammer him.

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When there is a facility person available, I let them take care of idiot parents. At youth baseball games, I have let HC take care of the dope and I have taken care of it myself. I have no rhyme or reason for choosing either method.

"You can smart mouth the umpires OR you can stay and watch the kids play, but you're not doing both...I'll let you choose." 

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On 5/17/2016 at 1:37 PM, conbo61 said:

"Don't talk to the fence."

New bumper sticker:

"Don't talk to the fence." -conbo61

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On 7/29/2016 at 8:49 AM, BigUmpire said:

New bumper sticker:

"Don't talk to the fence." -conbo61

While I am flattered to have my name associated with this umpire bumper sticker, I cannot take credit.

Proper credit should go to @maven

 

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On 5/17/2016 at 7:46 AM, Thawk751 said:

So on I Sunday I dumped a parent dressed up as a coach for arguing balls and strikes while he was sitting behind homeplate operating the scoreboard.  When I did dump him, I said to him "Coach, you need to go."  He promptly replied "I'm not a coach, I'm just the scoreboard guy.  You can't eject me!".  I replied with "You're wearing the coaching uniform, so I'm gonna treat you like a coach.  you need to go."

Oh the lengths that some parents will go to.

I'm pulling from my experience in running tournaments and leagues here.  Scoreboard operators and official scorekeepers, whether league or tournament, whether they are volunteers or not (sometimes they are provided by the home team of that game, sometimes they are provided by the team hosting the tournament...and sometimes that team is playing the game in question), are supposed to be impartial and are only supposed to comment/question on what is relevant to their job - sometimes unwritten, but I've seen many tournaments actually put this in writing  (though extreme, I have seen one tournament rule that the official scorekeeper can't cheer or in any way show any partiality to one team).

I wouldn't treat this guy as a coach, but as a person assigned a task that isn't fulfilling their duty - the ump is doing his job, the groundskeeper is doing his job, the scoreboard operator is not - don't really care who's getting paid or not.   If there's a tournament director, bring them in to deal with it.  If you are the only official (eg. a simple league game), by all means turf him, but I would say give the home team HC the opportunity to correct the problem first.

In fact, as far as I recall, most leagues and tournaments prohibit coaches from sitting in the stands, or more specifically prohibit coaching from the stands, so you can't really class him as a coach unless you are wiling to assess any appropriate penalties for coaching from the stands, which may include ejecting not only the guy in the stands but the HC as well.

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17 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

I'm pulling from my experience in running tournaments and leagues here.  Scoreboard operators and official scorekeepers, whether league or tournament, whether they are volunteers or not (sometimes they are provided by the home team of that game, sometimes they are provided by the team hosting the tournament...and sometimes that team is playing the game in question), are supposed to be impartial and are only supposed to comment/question on what is relevant to their job - sometimes unwritten, but I've seen many tournaments actually put this in writing  (though extreme, I have seen one tournament rule that the official scorekeeper can't cheer or in any way show any partiality to one team).

I wouldn't treat this guy as a coach, but as a person assigned a task that isn't fulfilling their duty - the ump is doing his job, the groundskeeper is doing his job, the scoreboard operator is not - don't really care who's getting paid or not.   If there's a tournament director, bring them in to deal with it.  If you are the only official (eg. a simple league game), by all means turf him, but I would say give the home team HC the opportunity to correct the problem first.

In fact, as far as I recall, most leagues and tournaments prohibit coaches from sitting in the stands, or more specifically prohibit coaching from the stands, so you can't really class him as a coach unless you are wiling to assess any appropriate penalties for coaching from the stands, which may include ejecting not only the guy in the stands but the HC as well.

Under normal circumstances @beerguy55 I would agree with you about not treating this guy as a coach.  But if a parent is going to "pretend" he's a coach, then he gets to have all the "responsibilities" of a coach.

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25 minutes ago, Thawk751 said:

Under normal circumstances @beerguy55 I would agree with you about not treating this guy as a coach.  But if a parent is going to "pretend" he's a coach, then he gets to have all the "responsibilities" of a coach.

I don't disagree.  If you're dressed like a coach and acting like a coach then I'm going to conclude you're a coach.  In that case I would treat him like a "coach in the stands/outside the bench" which usually begins with "coach, you need to be in the bench area", (as you would likely do if the HC walked behind the screen to see the pitches you're calling balls/strikes) and if he fails to comply then apply whatever penalties are appropriate for that league or tournament - and I've seen some leagues or tourneys where this is an ejection of the "coach", and/or an ejection of the HC, sometimes a suspension for both/either, and I think I've even seen cases of it being a forfeit/removal from tournament - apparently in some places they've had problems with parents/friends sitting in the stands, behaving as coaches, passing signals to the pitcher and other fielders, and figured it was a big enough problem to bring the hammer down.   That SHOULD be followed up when the officials see your ejection report that you ejected a coach  from the stands behind home plate.

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14 hours ago, BT_Blue said:

Ive cleared a scorebooth or two in my time. it isnt hard.

So have I...............

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Honestly, this isn't that hard.

We have already established that the score booth, especially if right behind or next to the backstop, should be impartial and there just to do the jobs pertaining to that area of the ballpark. If they can not handle that. Turn around and issue a request that they stop their shenanigans. If they continue, I now would issue an actual warning that tells them if they do not stop, I will require that the scoreboard be turned off. Everyone will be removed from the booth. And the score will be kept by the teams. With the home book as always being official.

I have only had to clear a score booth, maybe, two or three times in my career. 

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Ive cleared a scorebooth or two in my time. it isnt hard.

Me too.

Conversation went like this,”Time, you can run the scoreboard or criticize me. You can’t do both and if you choose the latter, you need to get out of the press box. Your choice, decide.”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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