Double play/ No double play

[Guest Shadow 41]

First of all I am a parent in the stands, not a coach and not a baseball expert by any means, please forgive any errors in terminology etc. My question concerns a Little League All Star game that took place earlier this month. VT is winning 10 to 8, top of the 5th inning with 1 out and a runner at 3rd base. Batter hits a looping line drive to F6 who makes the catch. Runner (R3?) is off at the crack of the bat and is almost halfway home as the catch is made. F6 throws to F5 who steps on the bag and an out is indicated by the umpire  (I BELIEVE it was the PU as the BU was near 2nd, two man crew) said out being the completion of an apparent double play, ending the top of the inning. At this point the HT goes to their dugout while the VT is told (by coaches) to stay in and not take the field. All 3 VT coaches are all over the 2 umpires, no one could hear what was being said but all 3 VT coaches were out of the dugout and they were ANIMATED. At this point the plate umpire calls HT back on to the field, indicates that the catch did complete the second out but that the runner had tagged up and was safe at home. The idea of the runner at 3rd tagging up on an infield looper seems unlikely as F6 would see him going and would throw to F2 for what should be an easy out, and also a double play. My question is, given the very limited information I am able to provide, is there some obscure rule the the VT was able to plead regarding tagging up? Or is it possible that the umpire(s) was watching the catch and missed actually seeing when the runner left? Perhaps the umpire crew got bullied into changing the call? The HT coaches did protest after the reversal but all they got was "he tagged up, play ball." VT went on to win 11 to 9 so it probably didn't end up making any difference but I remain confused, thank you for any possible input.

[Mizzou2016]

Perhaps there were no outs? The only explanation I can think of, barring a major FU by the umpires (more so than losing track of the outs).

Anyone but the Head Coach leaving his position to argue a call is gone (or should be) immediately.

[ZebraStripes]

Judgement calls are non-negotiable.  That said, the R3 must go back and touch third to not be called out on an appeal.  

[Nafxos]

There's no obscure rule.  He either tagged up after the catch or he didn't.  If he did, he scores.  If he didn't, he's out on the appeal at 3rd. 

 

[ElkOil]

Giving everyone the benefit of the doubt, let's assume there was, in fact, one out before the play in question.  If both umpires miss a tag up, well, you can only call what you saw.  If they didn't see what the runner did, they can't rule on it.  If that's the case, yeah, they made a mistake and they have to own up to it by admitting it.  In umpire parlance, that's called "eating a s#!t sandwich."  It happens and it's unfortunate, especially if it affects the outcome of the game.

Having said that, there is no way the umpires should change the call based on what the coaches tell them.  If the umpires are unsure, they should get together out of earshot of the coaches and discuss it among themselves, then make a determination.

[Rich Ives]

Perhaps there were no outs? The only explanation I can think of, barring a major FU by the umpires (more so than losing track of the outs).

Anyone but the Head Coach leaving his position to argue a call is gone (or should be) immediately.

FED rule. Doesn't apply here.

[Replacematt]

FED rule. Doesn't apply here.

Doesn't matter. I'd still toss any AC in any youth game that did this.

[Mudisfun]

FED rule. Doesn't apply here.

Umpires erred here. Even though this is a FED reference for for A/C's leaving their position regulation XIV for field decorum and rule 2, definition of Manager support that only the Manager will represent his team to the umpires. Swarming the officials as described seems to boarder of unsportsmanlike conduct referenced in XIV. 

 They allowed all 3 coaches to get into the action. BU should have immediately referred the touch/tag to the PU when approached as that is his call in a 2 man game. He should then have helped corral all the A/C's off the field.

PU should have ordered everyone off the field other than the Manager when swarmed. If they refused to leave then EJ them ASAP. Absolutely no reason for 3 grown adults to rush the crew and for the crew to allow this to occur. The call being right or wrong at this point is secondary to reclaiming control of the field and the participants and to keep bedlam from breaking out. Once calm has been restored and adults start acting like adults then the umpire with the call can have a conversation with the Manager and then make the call or get together with his partner.

 

Edited July 21, 2015 by Mudisfun

[Mudder]

There is absolutely no way an R3 would tag up and try for home on a line drive to the shortstop! 

[grayhawk]

There is absolutely no way an R3 would tag up and try for home on a line drive to the shortstop! 

Since this was Little League, it's possible that R3 never left his base until after the ball was touched by F6.  Remember, there is no leading off in Little League Majors and below.  That said, since this was an All Star game, I would think all runners would have left their base as soon as the ball reached the batter (as they are taught).  Seems less likely in an All Star game to have that clueless kid who's only there because his parents need baby sitting.

[ZebraStripes]

There is absolutely no way an R3 would tag up and try for home on a line drive to the shortstop! 

I wouldn't stake my life on that if I were you.  

[Mudder]

I wouldn't stake my life on that if I were you.  

I would especially when OP says R3 is half way home when the catch is made

[DVA7130]

FED rule. Doesn't apply here.

But proper coach behavior and game management definitely still does.