HBP in LSU / UNC Wilmington Regional

[indianaumpire15]

I was watching the LSU/UNC Wilmington Refional final today, I looked for the video but could not locate it.  Batter is hit by a pitch in the hands.  PU initially rules that it was a foul ball, my best guess he thought it was off the knob of the bat.  Batter clearly seems to be in pain and trainer and head coach come out.  Short convo, PU has batter take off batting glove, examines his hand and then awards batter first for a hit by pitch.

So what does everyone think of this?  I did not realize this was accepted practice in determining whether a batter was hit.  I think it's great to take in as much information as possible to help get the call right.  Replay showed the ball did in fact hit the batter.

Are there other situations where doing something similar to gain more information is acceptable?

Just thought this would be a good situation to dissect.

Edited June 1, 2015 by indianaumpire15

[noumpere]

It's fairly common.

 

See "shoe polish" play in MLB from 40 years ago.

[indianaumpire15]

It's fairly common.

 

See "shoe polish" play in MLB from 40 years ago.

Never thought of that.  Thanks.

[woodiemiller]

I was watching the LSU/UNC Wilmington Refional final today, I looked for the video but could not locate it.  Batter is hit by a pitch in the hands.  PU initially rules that it was a foul ball, my best guess he thought it was off the knob of the bat.  Batter clearly seems to be in pain and trainer and head coach come out.  Short convo, PU has batter take off batting glove, examines his hand and then awards batter first for a hit by pitch.

So what does everyone think of this?  I did not realize this was accepted practice in determining whether a batter was hit.  I think it's great to take in as much information as possible to help get the call right.  Replay showed the ball did in fact hit the batter.

Are there other situations where doing something similar to gain more information is acceptable?

Just thought this would be a good situation to dissect.

​If batter reacts right away, dont split hairs, give him 1st base. Go by the "sell" as often as you can. That will keep you out of the most trouble most of the time.

[maineump]

Really hard to tell if it hits the knob - I always give the benefit of doubt to the hitter. Hand shots will get a reaction, they really hurt.

[johnnyg08]

I was watching the LSU/UNC Wilmington Refional final today, I looked for the video but could not locate it.  Batter is hit by a pitch in the hands.  PU initially rules that it was a foul ball, my best guess he thought it was off the knob of the bat.  Batter clearly seems to be in pain and trainer and head coach come out.  Short convo, PU has batter take off batting glove, examines his hand and then awards batter first for a hit by pitch.

So what does everyone think of this?  I did not realize this was accepted practice in determining whether a batter was hit.  I think it's great to take in as much information as possible to help get the call right.  Replay showed the ball did in fact hit the batter.

Are there other situations where doing something similar to gain more information is acceptable?

Just thought this would be a good situation to dissect.

​@indianaumpire15 What inning?  It's a lot of work to find these w/o that information.  

[indianaumpire15]

​@indianaumpire15 What inning?  It's a lot of work to find these w/o that information.  

Sorry Johnny, I believe it was the third or the fourth.  I should have made a note, I was sneaking as much baseball as I could during the middle of "landscaping day".

[johnnyg08]

@indianaumpire15 Which team?  

[indianaumpire15]

LSU was batting and the batter was batting left handed.

Edited June 2, 2015 by indianaumpire15

[johnnyg08]

Boom @indianaumpire15

 

 

[indianaumpire15]

@johnnyg08

You sir are a gentleman and a scholar.

[jpperez14]

I've have had 2-3 times the past 2 years where a ball comes in on the hitter, I hear the ball off the bat and shoots away, and the batter starts shaking his hand. I rule it a foul ball, offensive coach argues and tells his batter to take his batting glove off. I told him I don't care if he has a mark on his hand, I heard the ball off the bat. I do not know which was hit first, so I am sticking with the foul ball. they moan and groan and complain, then the batter gets back in the box.

[johnnyg08]

These are some of the toughest calls in the game.  He was nice and patient, used all of his available tools and got it right.  

I looked like the conversation from the defense was minimal.  

@indianaumpire15 you are welcome.  Thanks for the information to help me find the play.  

[BuckeyeMike]

I had this last week and when it happened, the batter kind of half-a$$ed it in his sell of being hit.     I asked him to take his glove off and show me, but he refused.   Foul ball call stands!

 

[Replacematt]

I've have had 2-3 times the past 2 years where a ball comes in on the hitter, I hear the ball off the bat and shoots away, and the batter starts shaking his hand. I rule it a foul ball, offensive coach argues and tells his batter to take his batting glove off. I told him I don't care if he has a mark on his hand, I heard the ball off the bat. I do not know which was hit first, so I am sticking with the foul ball. they moan and groan and complain, then the batter gets back in the box.

​If you can't tell what it hit first, it hit his hand. That's straight from the mouth of Jim Evans.

Don't reward the pitcher for missing.

[DVA7130]

I wish I could tower over players and managers like that.

[johnnyg08]

​If you can't tell what it hit first, it hit his hand. That's straight from the mouth of Jim Evans.

Don't reward the pitcher for missing.

​I like this approach

[Majordave]

I do too Johnny.  Thanks Matt.  If you can't determine what it hit first and the batter did not create that situation but was reacting to what the pitcher created by not hitting the strike zone then do not reward the pitcher, award the batter.  Very good philosophy.

 

 

[Umpire in Chief]

I agree with using all available information to get the call right. A few years ago I had a similar situation in a HS game with playoff implications (winner got a bye) there was a HBP/Foul situation and I could not see through the batter to see exactly if it hit the bat or hand. I made my call based solely off of sound and ruled it a foul ball.

An argument followed the coach asked me to look at his hand and I refused. In hind sight, I wish I'd used all available information. 

The coach was being reasonable and I was being obstinate. Lesson learned.

[maineump]

Maybe a good mechanic for us would be to call "Time", then take time to figure it out. Either way - foul or HBP kills the play.

 

[BillKen]

These are some of the toughest calls in the game.  He was nice and patient, used all of his available tools and got it right.  

I looked like the conversation from the defense was minimal.  

@indianaumpire15 you are welcome.  Thanks for the information to help me find the play.  

​Would you argue with a dude that looked like that HP umpire?  Defense coach be like, "Yes Sir...It did hit him and you are right!"

[johnnyg08]

​Would you argue with a dude that looked like that HP umpire?  Defense coach be like, "Yes Sir...It did hit him and you are right!"

​You are correct!!

[noumpere]

​I think PU did this -- and the B's initial reaction is not really one of being hit.

[jpperez14]

​If you can't tell what it hit first, it hit his hand. That's straight from the mouth of Jim Evans.

Don't reward the pitcher for missing.

​What about with a batter swinging/check swings on one inside and the same thing?
Would you still rule it the same way?

[johnnyg08]

​What about with a batter swinging/check swings on one inside and the same thing?Would you still rule it the same way?

​In that case, I think you still have the same thing but you or your partner must now offer their judgment on the swing via appeal or the PU taking it on his own.