Reviewing the Unreviewable, the 2015 Hrbek/Gant Play

[Lindsay]

A runner pushed off of a base by a fielder's glove is not reviewable as umpire Andy Fletcher and crew chief Jerry Meals found out Friday night in Texas. With two out and one on in the 8th inning, A's baserunner R1 Mark Canha attempted to steal second base, resulting in a close play with Rangers...

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[umpstu]

Bizarre.

 

[maven]

Good call. The runner is not protected from the force of a tag unless he already has secure possession of the base. R1 slid past the base and his own momentum made him liable to come off the base when tagged. Out.

Had the runner achieved secure possession of the base (not off balance), and the fielder simply pushed him off the base beyond the force of a tag, we would kill it and award the runner the base he had achieved (not OBS, no further award).

[hbk314]

Good call. The runner is not protected from the force of a tag unless he already has secure possession of the base. R1 slid past the base and his own momentum made him liable to come off the base when tagged. Out.

Had the runner achieved secure possession of the base (not off balance), and the fielder simply pushed him off the base beyond the force of a tag, we would kill it and award the runner the base he had achieved (not OBS, no further award).

​If this is truly a correct call, the rule needs to be changed. He lifted his foot off the base.

[JHSump]

I don't think the rule needs changing. There are more than 100 years of wisdom from experience encapsulated in the rules of baseball. I can't say what the history is here, but I do think there is much wisdom in the ruling @maven is presenting. When a runner is securely stationed on a base and a fielder pushes the runner off the base and tags the runner, nobody would allow that. It's obviously in contradiction to the spirit of the game. But if a player overslides a base or falls off a base, he is in danger of being tagged out. The question is, where is the borderline between those two extremes. Contact must occur for a fielder to apply a tag. That contact is unavoidable, and cannot be removed from the game. That contact will certainly add to the difficulty of a runner keeping secure possession of a base. The borderline between an obviously unsportsmanlike push, and the runner falling off the base, must allow for some contact, and therefore force, applied by the fielder. The fielder must also be allowed to keep that force applied, as he must be allowed to continue to apply the tag if it looks like the runner might overslide or lose his control.

In this particular replay I think both the fielder and the runner contributed to the result. The fielder did not have secure possession of the base. The fielder pushed on the runner's leg, as he must certainly do if he is applying a tag. Oops. He's out. In this 50-50 effort the scales tip to the defense, as is almost always the case.

[hbk314]

I don't think the rule needs changing. There are more than 100 years of wisdom from experience encapsulated in the rules of baseball. I can't say what the history is here, but I do think there is much wisdom in the ruling @maven is presenting. When a runner is securely stationed on a base and a fielder pushes the runner off the base and tags the runner, nobody would allow that. It's obviously in contradiction to the spirit of the game. But if a player overslides a base or falls off a base, he is in danger of being tagged out. The question is, where is the borderline between those two extremes. Contact must occur for a fielder to apply a tag. That contact is unavoidable, and cannot be removed from the game. That contact will certainly add to the difficulty of a runner keeping secure possession of a base. The borderline between an obviously unsportsmanlike push, and the runner falling off the base, must allow for some contact, and therefore force, applied by the fielder. The fielder must also be allowed to keep that force applied, as he must be allowed to continue to apply the tag if it looks like the runner might overslide or lose his control.

In this particular replay I think both the fielder and the runner contributed to the result. The fielder did not have secure possession of the base. The fielder pushed on the runner's leg, as he must certainly do if he is applying a tag. Oops. He's out. In this 50-50 effort the scales tip to the defense, as is almost always the case.

​There's not a chance he comes off the bases without his leg essentially being lifted up on this play.

[CricketChapman]

Good call. The runner is not protected from the force of a tag unless he already has secure possession of the base. R1 slid past the base and his own momentum made him liable to come off the base when tagged. Out.

Had the runner achieved secure possession of the base (not off balance), and the fielder simply pushed him off the base beyond the force of a tag, we would kill it and award the runner the base he had achieved (not OBS, no further award).

​
While I agree with this, just for curiosity: where in OBR or any manual is this play addressed?

[maven]

 

​There's not a chance he comes off the bases without his leg essentially being lifted up on this play.

​The fact that his leg would not have come off the base without the contact is moot. There will be contact because the fielder is allowed to tag the runner. If the tag itself is legal (not MC in FED, for example), then it is up the the runner to have the base securely enough to survive that contact.

 

While I agree with this, just for curiosity: where in OBR or any manual is this play addressed?

No rule code explicitly addresses this issue, oddly enough. The interp applied in all codes comes from pro ball (Wendelstedt) and has two parts, reported in OBR §§458–59.

1. If a runner is knocked or pushed off a base by a fielder and would not have lost contact on his own momentum, the umpire will call time and award the runner the base he had already reached safely.
2. A forceful tag should not be grounds for protecting a runner from being tagged while off his base.

NCAA has an additional comment about point 2, such that if a runner goes into a base "without body control" and a forceful tag separates him from the base, then he is out. 

[hbk314]

I think there's a difference between surviving a tag and essentially having your foot lifted off the base.

[afaber12]

​There's not a chance he comes off the bases without his leg essentially being lifted up on this play.

​While I acknowledge that this observation is not definitive, the fact that after the tag R1's foot comes down clear of the base suggests that there was at least some chance that absent the tag he would have still over-slid the base. It seems unlikely that the tag itself added any forward or sideways momentum to the slide.

I'm not a lip reader, so I can't tell what Andy Fletcher was saying before signalling the out, but I noticed that the out wasn't signaled until after the foot came back to the ground. It could be that he was waiting to see the result of the leg coming down to judge that element.

[maven]

I think there's a difference between surviving a tag and essentially having your foot lifted off the base.

​Of course. Hence the 2 parts of Hunter's interp.

If you're making a comment about the MLB video in the OP, I gather you disagree with the ruling. Oh well.