Should I have warned?

[mjr_2013]

This is the summary of what happened. To set the scene, there had already been three close calls in the game, and I had already issued a direct warning to two different players on the home team - not the one who was ejected though.

 

This is a JV game.

 

In the top of the 7th, with two outs and a runner on 1st, a (visiting team) batter hit a double into the right-center gap. Upon the runner on 1st rounding 2nd base, R1 collided with the shortstop, who did not have possession of the ball. I called obstruction, and left the ball in play. The ball was thrown to 3rd base, where the R1 was tagged (out) on a close play...

 

Upon conclusion of the play, I called time and awarded R1 to 3rd base... The pitcher for (home team) at the time (#10) approached me following the play, and calmly requested an explanation for the call. I gave him my explanation, which he accepted without incident, and began returning to my position in 'C'... As I returned to my position, I heard the right fielder (#13) yell from his position in right field, "You need to re-read the rules!!". I ejected #13 for unsportsmanlike conduct.

 

Thoughts? Most of me says it was needed, and that is was a personal attack. Part of me says I should have told him to knock it off first, and that it was an attack on the call, not on me.

 

Thoughts?

 

-Edit to take out team name I missed taking out in OP-

[maven]

The EJ is fine, but I'm wondering whether the pitcher was also the head coach? Players have no business demanding explanations from umpires. The pitcher needs to get back to the mound and pitch: if coach has a question, he's welcome to ask.

[hbk314]

The EJ is fine, but I'm wondering whether the pitcher was also the head coach? Players have no business demanding explanations from umpires. The pitcher needs to get back to the mound and pitch: if coach has a question, he's welcome to ask.

 

Even in this case where it appears the pitcher was just wondering what the call was? OP says he calmly asked and then went right back to the mound. It reads to me like he just didn't know what happened, and it doesn't read like he "demanded" anything.

[johnnyg08]

This is the summary of what happened. To set the scene, there had already been three close calls in the game, and I had already issued a direct warning to two different players on the home team - not the one who was ejected though.

 

This is a JV game.

 

In the top of the 7th, with two outs and a runner on 1st, a (visiting team) batter hit a double into the right-center gap. Upon the runner on 1st rounding 2nd base, R1 collided with the shortstop, who did not have possession of the ball. I called obstruction, and left the ball in play. The ball was thrown to 3rd base, where the R1 was tagged (out) on a close play...

 

Upon conclusion of the play, I called time and awarded R1 to 3rd base... The pitcher for South Lyon East at the time (#10) approached me following the play, and calmly requested an explanation for the call. I gave him my explanation, which he accepted without incident, and began returning to my position in 'C'... As I returned to my position, I heard the right fielder (#13) yell from his position in right field, "You need to re-read the rules!!". I ejected #13 for unsportsmanlike conduct.

 

Thoughts? Most of me says it was needed, and that is was a personal attack. Part of me says I should have told him to knock it off first, and that it was an attack on the call, not on me.

 

Thoughts?

 

Good EJ

[Welpe]

This is worthy of an ejection. Good job sending him.

[Blueump]

A comment like that in a HS Fed game from a JV player probably would have resulted in a bench restriction from me, not an ejection. I would have simply asked the coach to give me the number of the player's replacement because he was finished for this game. JMO

[mjr_2013]

 

The EJ is fine, but I'm wondering whether the pitcher was also the head coach? Players have no business demanding explanations from umpires. The pitcher needs to get back to the mound and pitch: if coach has a question, he's welcome to ask.

 

Even in this case where it appears the pitcher was just wondering what the call was? OP says he calmly asked and then went right back to the mound. It reads to me like he just didn't know what happened, and it doesn't read like he "demanded" anything.

 

 

This. He just approached me and said that he didn't see what happened and asked if I could explain it. I had no problems explaining what occurred to him, only a problem with the F9 afterwards.

[BuckeyeMike]

If an F1, F4, Fx calmly asks me what just happened, i'm going to explain it.   "Give a man a fish......"   right?  

 

I have to ask, mjr, did F9 yell loud enough for the crowd to hear it?   You were in C, so I would presume so, but i'd like to hear.   I'm 50/50 on this just like you. 

[johnnyg08]

How many warnings was it going to take before some of those clowns actually got the hint?  If they didn't get the hint on two other warnings to their teammates, this EJ is a no brainer and necessary.  Nice work.  

 

There are many guys I know who work varsity baseball who would not have been able to handle the OBS on that play.

[Welpe]

A comment like that in a HS Fed game from a JV player probably would have resulted in a bench restriction from me, not an ejection. I would have simply asked the coach to give me the number of the player's replacement because he was finished for this game. JMO

So an ejection (known as a DQ in Fed) then?

You can't restrict a player for that.

[mjr_2013]

If an F1, F4, Fx calmly asks me what just happened, i'm going to explain it.   "Give a man a fish......"   right?  

 

I have to ask, mjr, did F9 yell loud enough for the crowd to hear it?   You were in C, so I would presume so, but i'd like to hear.   I'm 50/50 on this just like you. 

 

It was loud enough for the infield to hear it, but my partner did not hear it from behind the plate. There was a lot of yelling in the crowd, as they didn't understand what was going on (shocking, I know), and that would have been the out to end the game.

 

How many warnings was it going to take before some of those clowns actually got the hint?  If they didn't get the hint on two other warnings to their teammates, this EJ is a no brainer and necessary.  Nice work.  

 

There are many guys I know who work varsity baseball who would not have been able to handle the OBS on that play.

 

Your top line is what makes me feel like I got it right. If everyone had been angels from the first pitch and then this occurs in the intensity of the moment, I'm probably just going to give him a knock it off. Everything was ready to boil over at that point though, and I believe I got this one right.

[johnnyg08]

 

A comment like that in a HS Fed game from a JV player probably would have resulted in a bench restriction from me, not an ejection. I would have simply asked the coach to give me the number of the player's replacement because he was finished for this game. JMO

So an ejection (known as a DQ in Fed) then?

You can't restrict a player for that.

 

 

By rule, I don't think you can restrict for USC.  Not 100 though.  If it's unsportsmanlike enough to restrict, I suggest we eject and send a message about what isn't tolerated.

 

Illegal substitution is one reason you can restrict a player

[DVA7130]

resulted in a bench restriction

No such thing for a player.

[johnnyg08]

 

If an F1, F4, Fx calmly asks me what just happened, i'm going to explain it.   "Give a man a fish......"   right?  

 

I have to ask, mjr, did F9 yell loud enough for the crowd to hear it?   You were in C, so I would presume so, but i'd like to hear.   I'm 50/50 on this just like you. 

 

It was loud enough for the infield to hear it, but my partner did not hear it from behind the plate. There was a lot of yelling in the crowd, as they didn't understand what was going on (shocking, I know), and that would have been the out to end the game.

 

How many warnings was it going to take before some of those clowns actually got the hint?  If they didn't get the hint on two other warnings to their teammates, this EJ is a no brainer and necessary.  Nice work.  

 

There are many guys I know who work varsity baseball who would not have been able to handle the OBS on that play.

 

Your top line is what makes me feel like I got it right. If everyone had been angels from the first pitch and then this occurs in the intensity of the moment, I'm probably just going to give him a knock it off. Everything was ready to boil over at that point though, and I believe I got this one right.

 

 

You'll always regret the times you don't eject.  We're just a few weeks into MLB 2015 and we already have 17.  These are the best umpires and players in the world.  Some people think that no EJ's in a career is some how a badge of honor when in reality there likely have been times where the umpire didn't do his job and eject.  It is simply another tool we have given to us by the rule book.

Last year (2014) in MLB there were 199 Ejections.  

 

Here is last year's NCAA EJ data:

 

 

 

[Welpe]

By rule, I don't think you can restrict for USC. Not 100 though.

I am 100% sure. You can't restrict a player in this sitch.

[johnnyg08]

By rule, I don't think you can restrict for USC. Not 100 though.

I am 100% sure. You can't restrict a player in this sitch.

 

Thank you.  Good.  If it's bad enough to restrict, he should be ejected.

[ALStripes17]

A comment like that in a HS Fed game from a JV player probably would have resulted in a bench restriction from me, not an ejection. I would have simply asked the coach to give me the number of the player's replacement because he was finished for this game. JMO

So an ejection (known as a DQ in Fed) then?

You can't restrict a player for that.

By rule, I don't think you can restrict for USC. Not 100 though. If it's unsportsmanlike enough to restrict, I suggest we eject and send a message about what isn't tolerated.

Illegal substitution is one reason you can restrict a player

Illegal substitution is the only time you can restrict a player

[blue23ll]

In FED a player ejection is a 'de facto' restriction to the bench because a player must remain under the supervision of the coaching staff. I suppose if the player's parent/guardian is at the game they can take the player home.

[Welpe]

This is true however there is likely a difference in reporting for a player being restricted for an illegal sub and being disqualified/ejected for unsportsmanlike conduct.

[blue23ll]

This is true however there is likely a difference in reporting for a player being restricted for an illegal sub and being disqualified/ejected for unsportsmanlike conduct.

Of course, you write the ejection report for the UC. 

[afaber12]

I don't think there's necessarily an issue explaining the call to F1. I suppose there's the potential for it to get into a "what about if..." rabbit hole which would need to be shut down quickly, but a quick explanation and move on, when the player's approached and asked appropriately should be fine. I tend to think that not explaining the call here could get people offside with you fairly quickly.

 

You said you'd already warned two other players from the same team earlier in the game before this play. Depending on what the warnings were, I'm wondering if after the second incident it would be worth talking to the coach and letting him know that there's no more rope left.

[Jocko]

Personally, the only explanation I would give a player in your sitch is "Obstruction" An adult HC will get a bit more, but not much.

As for the EJ...not an issue. You did your iob.

[maven]

This. He just approached me and said that he didn't see what happened and asked if I could explain it. I had no problems explaining what occurred to him, only a problem with the F9 afterwards.

I see. I was picturing a coach-like demand for a justification of the call, not a mere question about what happened. Of course, I have no problem with answering the latter, provided it's not the former in disguise.

[Stan W.]

good ej

[Mick]

I respectfully disagree with those who say F1 should not have been spoken to.  In my pre-game conference, I always say to the head coaches: "If your players or assistant coaches have a question, or need a clarification, I have no problem with that.  Anything beyond that, we're only speaking to you two" (the two head coaches).  They get it.  I'm sure some will disagree with that approach, but it works for me.