How does this call stand?

[Thunderheads]

How does this call stand ...........?

 

He offers, the ball hits his bat then his hand almost at the same time, ...yes?

 

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/63817564/v34718117

[JHSump]

IMO given the reaction of the batter I would have decided that the ball hit his hand.  Whether it hit the bat first or at the same time cannot be humanly decided in real time, I think.  Even the replay won't help in this case.  So, the batter was hit by the pitch.

 

Then, the question is did he offer on the bunt.

 

The pitch was right at him and it looks to me like he was trying to not offer  He was trying to pull back and at the same time in the process of saying "Oh sh!t!."

 

So in the end, after the replay, I think they got it right.

[scrounge]

I didn't think he offered either. A pitch that high and inside? Looked like evasive action to me. I'm good with the call.

[zoops]

I've had a few plays similar to this one this year...One almost identical where a player was squared around and an up and in fastball hit him.  Coach argued that he offered since the bat was out there, I thought he did not even though he didn't necessarily get the bat back.  Coach says to me "so I can teach my guys to just hold the bat out there and as long as they don't offer at the pitch it's not a strike?"  "yeah pretty much coach."  Common line of thinking is that you're going to give the benefit of doubt to the offense here since the pitcher screwed up the play with his up and in pitch - it's going to have to be a pretty obvious offer for me to call it.

 

Had two last night where the batter started his swing, checked it, and got hit on the hands.  One time the coach argued that since he started to move his hands to offer at the pitch it didn't matter that the bat never came around and we can't give him first.  The other time the coach argued that the hands are part of the bat, which I failed to explain with a straight face that no it has to hit the bat to be considered foul.  He came back an inning later and said "yeah I meant that if he swings and the ball hits the hands it's a strike."  "That's correct coach."

 

As @JHSump said, it's almost impossible to judge in real time, lots going on really quickly.  

[ERW27]

So where is the point you guys would say he offered/defending himself/self preservation. I know if he leave the bat out there and dosen't "offer" its not a strike, but to me that bat needs to be very very still to sell that.

 

1. Where is line to offer not offer a bunt attempt?

 

2. Does trying to avoiding getting hit count as an attempt (I think it does).

[noumpere]

1.  I assume you agree that you can't "undo" a swing.  So, the line is at the point where you'd call it an attempt even if the batter subsequently pulls back.  That's generally going to take some movement toward the ball (in other than just a tracking motion).

 

2. I think the concepts of "avoiding getting hit" and "attempting" are two different things.  You can attempt to avoid and still attempt to hit.  You can attempt to avoid and not attempt to hit. etc.  The benefit of the doubt though needs to go to "no attempt" -- so I think your assumption is backwards.

[grayhawk]

1.  I assume you agree that you can't "undo" a swing.  So, the line is at the point where you'd call it an attempt even if the batter subsequently pulls back.  That's generally going to take some movement toward the ball (in other than just a tracking motion).

 

2. I think the concepts of "avoiding getting hit" and "attempting" are two different things.  You can attempt to avoid and still attempt to hit.  You can attempt to avoid and not attempt to hit. etc.  The benefit of the doubt though needs to go to "no attempt" -- so I think your assumption is backwards.

 

Agreed.  Put yourself in the batter's shoes.  You square to bunt and the pitch is coming right at you.  Self-preservation takes over and you "retreat" from the ball coming right at you.  The vast majority of the time, as seen in the video, the bat is drawn in towards the body as a means of protecting oneself.  This is NOT an attempt.  The ONLY time I am going to get an attempt is if I see the bat move TOWARD the ball.

[ERW27]

I understand where you guys are comming from, but would you agree self preservation is an attempt to hit the ball with the bat and not taking it in the ribs/head. Thats still an attempt.

[grayhawk]

I understand where you guys are comming from, but would you agree self preservation is an attempt to hit the ball with the bat and not taking it in the ribs/head. Thats still an attempt.

 

No, I don't agree.  F1 screwed the pooch by throwing it in the batter's box.  Don't bail him out when the batter was just protecting himself.  As I said, unless I see the bat move towards the ball, the batter's getting first every time in this situation.

[rjt6]

I've seen the replay. Ball hit bat before it hit hand.

[JaxRolo]

Don't think he offered at all. He was pulling back.

 

As for if it hit the bat or hand first-who knows!

[afaber12]

The super-slow-mo (particularly the slowed down super-slow-mo) looked to me like it hit the bat first then the hand. The other angles and speeds I'm not sure from the look that I can see anything definitive. I'd be a little surprised to hear the that sound and not have fingers broken/dislocated/other very significant injuries.

 

Presumably New York didn't have that angle, because it should have been a foul.

 

Announcer: "You can hear -"

Batter: <paraphrased to read "Oh fudge, that did not tickle one bit">

[BigUmpire]

How does this call stand ...........?

 

He offers, the ball hits his bat then his hand almost at the same time, ...yes?

 

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/63817564/v34718117

NO!

[Thunderheads]

 

How does this call stand ...........?

 

He offers, the ball hits his bat then his hand almost at the same time, ...yes?

 

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/63817564/v34718117

NO!

 

of course no, because that's the call on the field, ...I mean, why would you question that?!?!

[BigUmpire]

I am in one of those moods.

[bleacher_bum]

I don't see an "offer", but the replay does look like it may have hit bat first.  Maybe not, very difficult to tell.