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Batting Out of Order


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Help me win a bet please.  :D

 

I am in disagreement with a fellow official on a situation that happened in our game last night.  B1, B2, B3 is the correct order.  B2 accidently bats and strike outs.  He is followed by B1 who has a strike thrown to him.  At this point, the defensive manager comes out and questions batting out of order.  What do you all have at this point? 

 

Thanks 

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Help me win a bet please.  :D

 

I am in disagreement with a fellow official on a situation that happened in our game last night.  B1, B2, B3 is the correct order.  B2 accidently bats and strike outs.  He is followed by B1 who has a strike thrown to him.  At this point, the defensive manager comes out and questions batting out of order.  What do you all have at this point? 

 

Thanks 

did you inquire w/ BOO in the rulebook of which set your game was played under?

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I agree with Rich on the ruling and don't understand the two posts prior to that.  I don't think it makes a difference which code is being used nor do I think it matters which batter they are appealing.

 

It might not be a dumb move by the manager though, depending on who batters B1, B2 and B3 are and who the manager would rather have at the plate.

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I agree with Rich on the ruling and don't understand the two posts prior to that.  I don't think it makes a difference which code is being used nor do I think it matters which batter they are appealing.

 

It might not be a dumb move by the manager though, depending on who batters B1, B2 and B3 are and who the manager would rather have at the plate.

it doesn't ......it's a generic question in regards to the OP's game

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NFHS rules, high school varsity (I know, should be an easy answer for guys doing this level but my partner is stubborn :shakehead: )

 

Rich gave me the answer I was looking for.

 

Coach stated that R2 and R1 batted in reverse order.  He was wanting the recorded out on R2 to stand, but then he wanted R1 called out (not happening).  I stated to him that this was not the case and that R3 would now be the hitter assuming the count and that the pitch thrown made R2s at bat legal.  He kind of just paused for a second with a blank stare on his face and then headed back to the dugout stating how confusing all these rules are.  There was no argument from the coach and he accepted the ruling. Afterwards in our postgame my partner felt as if I got it wrong.  I will spare you all with his thought process unless you all really want to hear it.

 

Thanks   

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I sometimes tell incredulous coaches that it's the Goldilocks rule: the appeal can be too early, too late, or juuuuuust right.

 

This coach was too early to have B3 called out for BOO. He was also too late for B1 to be called out for BOO, but that doesn't matter much, since B2 made an out in his AB.

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NFHS rules, high school varsity (I know, should be an easy answer for guys doing this level but my partner is stubborn :shakehead: )

 

Rich gave me the answer I was looking for.

 

Coach stated that R2 and R1 batted in reverse order.  He was wanting the recorded out on R2 to stand, but then he wanted R1 called out (not happening).  I stated to him that this was not the case and that R3 would now be the hitter assuming the count and that the pitch thrown made R2s at bat legal.  He kind of just paused for a second with a blank stare on his face and then headed back to the dugout stating how confusing all these rules are.  There was no argument from the coach and he accepted the ruling. Afterwards in our postgame my partner felt as if I got it wrong.  I will spare you all with his thought process unless you all really want to hear it.

 

Thanks   

 

So have you blocked him in Arbiter yet?  I would have serious concern about the rules knowledge of a varsity rated official if he can't get a very basic BOO correct.

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I agree with Rich on the ruling and don't understand the two posts prior to that.  I don't think it makes a difference which code is being used nor do I think it matters which batter they are appealing.

 

It might not be a dumb move by the manager though, depending on who batters B1, B2 and B3 are and who the manager would rather have at the plate.

Couldn't they appeal that B1 was batting out of order since B2 was made the proper batter?

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I agree with Rich on the ruling and don't understand the two posts prior to that.  I don't think it makes a difference which code is being used nor do I think it matters which batter they are appealing.

 

It might not be a dumb move by the manager though, depending on who batters B1, B2 and B3 are and who the manager would rather have at the plate.

Couldn't they appeal that B1 was batting out of order since B2 was made the proper batter?

 

 

I think @noumpere's point was that it matters when, not whom, they appeal. Once the defense appeals, we rule accordingly. In this case, swap the proper batter, B3, for the improper one, B1. No further penalty.

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Partner was not argumentative about it, just thought that my application of the rule was incorrect.  He was in the conversation when I ruled and sat by quietly (thankfully). 

 

Honestly I am not sure where he gets this interpretation, but he felt as if B2 is out on the strikeout, then B1 is out for batting out of order, and then the correct hitter with a new count should be B2.  Since B2 was the original incorrect batter and it was not caught, his out stands.  Now the correct batter should be B2 again, but B1 hits instead so he is ruled out, but that you have to put the correct batter in the box in B2.

 

 

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One part of the BOO rule still confuses me.

 

The order is B1, B2, B3

 

B1, the proper batter, is due up but B2 bats instead.  B2 strikes-out.

 

If the appeal is made at this point is the correct ruling that B1 is out, B2's strike-out is erased, and B2 is the next proper batter?

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One part of the BOO rule still confuses me.

The order is B1, B2, B3

B1, the proper batter, is due up but B2 bats instead. B2 strikes-out.

If the appeal is made at this point is the correct ruling that B1 is out, B2's strike-out is erased, and B2 is the next proper batter?

correct
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One part of the BOO rule still confuses me.

 

The order is B1, B2, B3

 

B1, the proper batter, is due up but B2 bats instead.  B2 strikes-out.

 

If the appeal is made at this point is the correct ruling that B1 is out, B2's strike-out is erased, and B2 is the next proper batter?

 

Yes, in all codes.  Even in Fed, where "any outs made on the play stand," an "out for batting out of order supersedes an out by the improper batter on the play."

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I sometimes tell incredulous coaches that it's the Goldilocks rule: the appeal can be too early, too late, or juuuuuust right.

 

This coach was too early to have B3 called out for BOO. He was also too late for B1 to be called out for BOO, but that doesn't matter much, since B2 made an out in his AB.

 

right.

 

and the other thing to remember is that "batting out of order" or "boo" is wrong.  it should be "mytab" -- "missing your turn at bat" because that's who is out.

 

If you remember those two things, you'll get these plays right.

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and the other thing to remember is that "batting out of order" or "boo" is wrong.  it should be "mytab" -- "missing your turn at bat" because that's who is out.

Yep. The idea of calling out the "proper batter" confuses people. If you think of him instead as the guy who missed his turn, now it's his infraction, not the guy who hit the soon-to-be-erased HR. :)

 

Whoever maintains the list of abbreviations for this site needs to add MYTAB, which I will recommend from now on.

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The OP said "B2 accidently bats and strike outs.  He is followed by B1 who has a strike thrown to him.  At this point, the defensive manager comes out and questions batting out of order."

 

Once a pitch is thrown to B1 he becomes the 'proper batter', there can be no appeal at this point.  Continue through the line up with B2 on deck.
 

 

Per the Rules book - 'When an improper batter becomes a proper batter because no appeal is properly made (as above), the next batter shall be the batter whose name ­follows that of such legalized improper batter. The instant an improper ­batter's actions are legalized, the batting order picks up with the name ­following that of the legalized improper batter.'

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The OP said "B2 accidently bats and strike outs. He is followed by B1 who has a strike thrown to him. At this point, the defensive manager comes out and questions batting out of order."

Once a pitch is thrown to B1 he becomes the 'proper batter', there can be no appeal at this point. Continue through the line up with B2 on deck.

Per the Rules book - 'When an improper batter becomes a proper batter because no appeal is properly made (as above), the next batter shall be the batter whose name ­follows that of such legalized improper batter. The instant an improper ­batter's actions are legalized, the batting order picks up with the name ­following that of the legalized improper batter.'

You middle paragraph is incorrect. Once a pitch is thrown to B1, B2s at-bat became legalized. That means B3 is now the proper batter. Since the BOO appeal happens before B1 completed his time at bat, replace B1 with B3 and B3 assumes the 0-1 count.

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Disagree.

Once a pitch is thrown to B1, HE becomes the proper batter.

 

Per the Rules book - 'When an improper batter becomes a proper batter because no appeal is properly made (as above), the next batter shall be the batter whose name ­follows that of such legalized improper batter. The instant an improper ­batter's actions are legalized, the batting order picks up with the name ­following that of the legalized improper batter.'

 

Next batter up will be B2.

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Think about it, who was the improper batter? B2. Once a pitch is thrown to the batter who next enters the box (no matter who it is), B2's at-bat becomes legalized. That's what a legalized improper batter is. Now, who follows B2 in the batting order? B3 (now the proper batter). Since B1 is an improper batter (in place of B3) but the appeal is made prior to his time at bat ending, B3 replaces him and assumes the count.

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Think about it, who was the improper batter? B2. Once a pitch is thrown to the batter who next enters the box (no matter who it is), B2's at-bat becomes legalized. That's what a legalized improper batter is. Now, who follows B2 in the batting order? B3 (now the proper batter). Since B1 is an improper batter (in place of B3) but the appeal is made prior to his time at bat ending, B3 replaces him and assumes the count.

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Disagree.

Once a pitch is thrown to B1, HE becomes the proper batter.

 

Per the Rules book - 'When an improper batter becomes a proper batter because no appeal is properly made (as above), the next batter shall be the batter whose name ­follows that of such legalized improper batter. The instant an improper ­batter's actions are legalized, the batting order picks up with the name ­following that of the legalized improper batter.'

 

Next batter up will be B2.

 

Your wrong. Would you mind reading the whole rule and the Abel, Baker etc. approved rulings

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I am not wrong.  Here is a casebook play that is exactly on point:

 

7.1.1 SITUATION C:

The batting order is B1, B2, B3, B4. If B3 erroneously bats in place of B1 and the batting infraction is not detected by anyone before a pitch to the next batter, is B2 or B4 the next correct batter?

RULING: B4, since he follows B3 in the batting order. Neither B1 nor B2 may legally bat until their turns come again as listed.

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