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Batter "permits" pitch to hit him


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When the NFHS Pre-Season Guide came out for 2011, they re-emphasized rule 8-1-1d (batter hit by pitch). A couple of years ago the batter was required to make an attempt to get out of the way. The current rule says it's not a hit by pitch if he, "permits the pitched ball to touch him." I don't think that clarified the language at all. What is the difference? Can anyone explain it in better terms? Are they talking about leaning into a pitch? What about the batter standing still while the pitch hits him? Weren't both of those situations covered in the older rule?

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When the NFHS Pre-Season Guide came out for 2011, they re-emphasized rule 8-1-1d (batter hit by pitch). A couple of years ago the batter was required to make an attempt to get out of the way. The current rule says it's not a hit by pitch if he, "permits the pitched ball to touch him." I don't think that clarified the language at all. What is the difference? Can anyone explain it in better terms? Are they talking about leaning into a pitch? What about the batter standing still while the pitch hits him? Weren't both of those situations covered in the older rule?

Case Book

Page 63 8.1.1 Situation D

When may a batter be hit by a pitch and not be awarded first base?

a. When the pitch is a strike.

b. when the batter does not attempt to avoid being hit (Umpire Judgment. You just have to Umpire)

c. with no runners on base, the pitch is illegal and is not ball four

d. when the batter attempts to hit the pitch

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I think you'tre misreading the rule.

When the NFHS Pre-Season Guide came out for 2011, they re-emphasized rule 8-1-1d (batter hit by pitch). A couple of years ago the batter was required to make an attempt to get out of the way. The current rule says it's not a hit by pitch if he, "permits the pitched ball to touch him." I don't think that clarified the language at all. What is the difference? Can anyone explain it in better terms? Are they talking about leaning into a pitch? What about the batter standing still while the pitch hits him? Weren't both of those situations covered in the older rule?

I think you're misreading the rule.

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When the NFHS Pre-Season Guide came out for 2011, they re-emphasized rule 8-1-1d (batter hit by pitch). A couple of years ago the batter was required to make an attempt to get out of the way. The current rule says it's not a hit by pitch if he, "permits the pitched ball to touch him." I don't think that clarified the language at all. What is the difference? Can anyone explain it in better terms? Are they talking about leaning into a pitch? What about the batter standing still while the pitch hits him? Weren't both of those situations covered in the older rule?

Case Book

Page 63 8.1.1 Situation D

When may a batter be hit by a pitch and not be awarded first base?

a. When the pitch is a strike.

b. when the batter does not attempt to avoid being hit (Umpire Judgment. You just have to Umpire)

c. with no runners on base, the pitch is illegal and is not ball four

d. when the batter attempts to hit the pitch

Yes, I've read the case book. In the case book (8.1.1 D, Ruling B) it mentions "batter does not attempt to avoid being hit." And, yes, it is umpire judment. However, in 2 different places in the rule book (8-1-1-d-1 and 7-3-4) the language is different and changes to "permit a pitch to touch him." The Fed made it a point to print information about this in the 2011 Pre-Season Guide. Why did they think the language from the past was conflicting and "caused confusion among umpires, teams, and players?" I still maintain that they are saying the same thing: Permiting a pitch to touch him and failing to get out of the way is pretty much the same, isn't it?

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I think you'tre misreading the rule.

When the NFHS Pre-Season Guide came out for 2011, they re-emphasized rule 8-1-1d (batter hit by pitch). A couple of years ago the batter was required to make an attempt to get out of the way. The current rule says it's not a hit by pitch if he, "permits the pitched ball to touch him." I don't think that clarified the language at all. What is the difference? Can anyone explain it in better terms? Are they talking about leaning into a pitch? What about the batter standing still while the pitch hits him? Weren't both of those situations covered in the older rule?

I think you're misreading the rule.

Why do you say that?

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When the NFHS Pre-Season Guide came out for 2011, they re-emphasized rule 8-1-1d (batter hit by pitch). A couple of years ago the batter was required to make an attempt to get out of the way. The current rule says it's not a hit by pitch if he, "permits the pitched ball to touch him." I don't think that clarified the language at all. What is the difference? Can anyone explain it in better terms? Are they talking about leaning into a pitch? What about the batter standing still while the pitch hits him? Weren't both of those situations covered in the older rule?

Case Book

Page 63 8.1.1 Situation D

When may a batter be hit by a pitch and not be awarded first base?

a. When the pitch is a strike.

b. when the batter does not attempt to avoid being hit (Umpire Judgment. You just have to Umpire)

c. with no runners on base, the pitch is illegal and is not ball four

d. when the batter attempts to hit the pitch

Yes, I've read the case book. In the case book (8.1.1 D, Ruling B) it mentions "batter does not attempt to avoid being hit." And, yes, it is umpire judment. However, in 2 different places in the rule book (8-1-1-d-1 and 7-3-4) the language is different and changes to "permit a pitch to touch him." The Fed made it a point to print information about this in the 2011 Pre-Season Guide. Why did they think the language from the past was conflicting and "caused confusion among umpires, teams, and players?" I still maintain that they are saying the same thing: th Permiting a pitch to touch him and failing to get out of the way is pretty much e same, isn't it?

It is the same in my interpretation.

I think your reading to much into the rule.

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I think you'tre misreading the rule.

When the NFHS Pre-Season Guide came out for 2011, they re-emphasized rule 8-1-1d (batter hit by pitch). A couple of years ago the batter was required to make an attempt to get out of the way. The current rule says it's not a hit by pitch if he, "permits the pitched ball to touch him." I don't think that clarified the language at all. What is the difference? Can anyone explain it in better terms? Are they talking about leaning into a pitch? What about the batter standing still while the pitch hits him? Weren't both of those situations covered in the older rule?

I think you're misreading the rule.

Why do you say that?

You missed the OR

2010 rule (no change in the rule was listed at the NFHS site)

8-1-1

Batter becones a runner if

d - a pitched ball hits his person or clothing, provided he does not strike at the ball OR

1) If he permits the pitched ball to touch him (7-3-4), or if the umpire calls the pitched ball a strike, the hitting of the batter is disregarded except that the ball is dead.

So he gets to go to first UNLESS he strikes at the ball or permits the pitched ball to strike him or if the pitch is a strike.

7-3-4

A batter shall not permit a pitched ball to touch him. Penalty: The batter remains at bat (pitch is a ball or strike) unless the pitch was a third strike or ball four.

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The Fed made it a point to print information about this in the 2011 Pre-Season Guide.

Completely off-topic, but does anyone have a PDF of the pre-season guide? I forgot to pick one up at my meeting this past week.

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I think you'tre misreading the rule.

When the NFHS Pre-Season Guide came out for 2011, they re-emphasized rule 8-1-1d (batter hit by pitch). A couple of years ago the batter was required to make an attempt to get out of the way. The current rule says it's not a hit by pitch if he, "permits the pitched ball to touch him." I don't think that clarified the language at all. What is the difference? Can anyone explain it in better terms? Are they talking about leaning into a pitch? What about the batter standing still while the pitch hits him? Weren't both of those situations covered in the older rule?

I think you're misreading the rule.

Why do you say that?

You missed the OR

2010 rule (no change in the rule was listed at the NFHS site)

8-1-1

Batter becones a runner if

d - a pitched ball hits his person or clothing, provided he does not strike at the ball OR

1) If he permits the pitched ball to touch him (7-3-4), or if the umpire calls the pitched ball a strike, the hitting of the batter is disregarded except that the ball is dead.

So he gets to go to first UNLESS he strikes at the ball or permits the pitched ball to strike him or if the pitch is a strike.

7-3-4

A batter shall not permit a pitched ball to touch him. Penalty: The batter remains at bat (pitch is a ball or strike) unless the pitch was a third strike or ball four.

I don't disagree with the rule. I'm asking how you call a hit-by-pitch in terms of the rule book. So I get back to my original question worded differently for you:

If the batter stands still (i.e. does not make an attempt to get out of the way, permitting the pitch to hit him) are you sending him to first base?

Follow up question: Might your call be different with a slow breaking ball versus a tailing fastball if he stands still?

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If the batter stands still (i.e. does not make an attempt to get out of the way, permitting the pitch to hit him) are you sending him to first base?

Do I think he froze up or took one for the team? If a freze -yes if not, then No. What part of "permits the ball to hit him" is difficult.

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There are many variables involved.

The getting "frozen" is one of many. Judgement too.

Some people will say it depends on where the ball is. If it's in the batters box the batter gets the base.

Then you need to figure what you think defines permitting the ball to hit. A flinch, turning away???

This is a toughy.

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There are many variables involved.

The getting "frozen" is one of many. Judgement too.

Some people will say it depends on where the ball is. If it's in the batters box the batter gets the base.

Then you need to figure what you think defines permitting the ball to hit. A flinch, turning away???

This is a toughy.

In the pro world just about any movement will get you a HBP unless it's clearly getting into the path of the ball.

In NCAA if the ball is within the batter's box no effort is necessary.

Too many people spend too mich time looking for a reaason the not give the batter a HBP.

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Your first responsibility is to judge the pitch as a ball or strike. I believe if you are tracking the ball properly with your eyes, that should help determine where the ball was when it hit the batter. If the the ball is over the plate I will have a hard time letting the batter go to first base. If the ball is over the batters box when it hits the batter, I will most likely award first base, unless something funky happens like the batter goes to far on a check swing while bailing out of the way.

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I am in the camp to hold a batter if he doesn't attempt to avoid, but it still happens infrequently. If the batter does nothing tehn I will keep him unless I think he got frozen. If he gives me anything I send him. Of course if he leans into a pitch or gets hit in the zone then he stays. It is the same as pro, not the same as NCAA.

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Every year I do HS ball, I have more and more "macho" players who stand perfectly still on big breaking pitches and get hit in the shoulder. I think some of them are just trying to "take one for the team." They pretend to be "frozen" on the pitch. I've denied a few batters first base based on my judgment and, of course, their coaches usually disagree with me. By that age the batters should have seen enough breaking pitches to at least flinch a bit, which makes the call easier for me to justify. I just can't tolerate the guy who stands like a statue expecting me to send him to first.

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There are many variables involved.

The getting "frozen" is one of many.

Thats the point of the rules change. A batter who is "frozen" did not make an attempt to avoid (old rule), but also did not permit the ball to hit him (new rule). Permit means something like "allow to happen when it could have been prevented" and if the batter is frozen it can't be prevented.

Yes, its still umpire judgement.

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