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Unfortunate Ruling by Official Book


Guest drturtle
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Guest drturtle

Good morning!

 

Not really an umpire question, but this happened in my game last night and wanting to know what should happen.

 

Going into the last inning, one coach in 11-12 little league put in a pitcher who had pitched 77 pitches Tuesday night (48 hours prior) to close the game.  Score was 5-4 their lead.  The other coach questioned the official paid book if that pitcher could pitch, and he was told that he couldn't because there had to be 72 hours rest in between pitch outings after 50 pitches are thrown.  The other coach was called over, he was informed of the situation, where he apologized and stated that he thought that the rule was 36 or 48 hours rest (he wasn't sure which one, just thought that any pitcher that pitched on Tuesday night was eligible to pitch on Thursday night).  So he put his other pitcher back in and ended up losing 6-5.  

 

When I got home I looked up the local rules for that league and the coach who put the pitcher in the game was actually right!  Rule states there must be 36 hours rest.  So the official book was wrong, and it appears it is going to cost the correct coach first place in the league and the opportunity to coach the All-Star team.

 

Thoughts?  

 

Thanks!

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Good morning!

 

Not really an umpire question, but this happened in my game last night and wanting to know what should happen.

 

Going into the last inning, one coach in 11-12 little league put in a pitcher who had pitched 77 pitches Tuesday night (48 hours prior) to close the game.  Score was 5-4 their lead.  The other coach questioned the official paid book if that pitcher could pitch, and he was told that he couldn't because there had to be 72 hours rest in between pitch outings after 50 pitches are thrown.  The other coach was called over, he was informed of the situation, where he apologized and stated that he thought that the rule was 36 or 48 hours rest (he wasn't sure which one, just thought that any pitcher that pitched on Tuesday night was eligible to pitch on Thursday night).  So he put his other pitcher back in and ended up losing 6-5.  

 

When I got home I looked up the local rules for that league and the coach who put the pitcher in the game was actually right!  Rule states there must be 36 hours rest.  So the official book was wrong, and it appears it is going to cost the correct coach first place in the league and the opportunity to coach the All-Star team.

 

Thoughts?  

 

Thanks!

 

What is your organization? It isn't Little League because they express rest in calendar days, not hours.  In LL. if you exceed 50 pitches three calendar days of rest are required. If you exceed 65 pitches four calendar days of rest are required.  Under the old innings-pitched rules a pitcher who went 4 or more innings would need three calendar days rest. Calendar days, not hours.  Pitch Saturday at 10:00am? Need three days rest? Can't pitch until Wednesday.

 

My thoughts are that 36 hours after 50 pitches is not enough rest.

 

My other thought is that someone cares too much at this age level/

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Guest Guest

I agree about the pitch count/lack of rest.  I don't know why people don't look to the experts (like Dr. Jim Andrews) who have published pitch counts that are sensible.  I also agree about the fact that this is not an umpire issue.

 

I still would like to know what some of you think should happen since the official scorebook was dead wrong about a published rule.

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It is not the score book's job to enforce a pitching rule. 

 

Depending on the league, it may be a shared responsibility to protect kids arms, so a scorekeeper might alert the umpire if a pitcher was ineligible. 

 

Ultimately, it is on the manager to object if a rule is applied incorrectly.  Manager wasn't 100% sure of the rule at the time and couldn't be bothered to look it up, so he can't be too upset if it cost him the game and whatever other world-ending consequences might occur. 

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Tough situation this one........but there is a saying that "local rules are made by local fools"........because its usually not a good idea to make a local rule in direct conflict with a league sanctionlng body rule , in this case LL..

 

I would say that in this case, since you have played this far into the season with your local rule in place, then thats the way its got to stay......

 

My advice is that next year someone would make a motion that no local rules can be made that are in direct conflict with the LL rule book.....I think the coach above will probably second the motion....

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I'm not a fan of leagues making rules outside of what is covered, in great detail, in the rule book....

 

I agree with what Stan W has to say regarding rules and a motion for next year. 

 

 

The OP said "In my game last night", were you a coach on one of the teams or the PU/BU?  What do you mean by "my game"?

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I agree about the pitch count/lack of rest.  I don't know why people don't look to the experts (like Dr. Jim Andrews) who have published pitch counts that are sensible.  I also agree about the fact that this is not an umpire issue.

 

I still would like to know what some of you think should happen since the official scorebook was dead wrong about a published rule.

 

 

Did the coach officially protest at the time of the ruling?  Unless he used the word "protest," the general ruling in BB is that he did not protest at the time and can't complain later.  If the coach knew the rule, which he should, then he should have protested.  He didn't do his job, and is most likely out of luck to complain about anyone else not knowing the rule. 

 

But this is assuming that your league follows baseball rules, and you didn't asnwer the inquiry about what the governing body is for your league.    As others have noted, if it is Little League, then the kid was ineligible to pitch by organizational rules that the local league lacks authority to change.

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If this is truly LL then everybody screwed up. First the coach should know and understand the pitching restrictions for his leagues. A local MAY NOT alter these rest rules. The league screwed up because they allowed some bogus rest rule that is contrary to the LL book. Also there is supposed to be an official pitch counter for every game that tracks pitches and should understand the restrictions on pitchers that have pitched on other nights. The umpires and both managers screwed up because the penalty for a pitcher found to be ineligible while warming is he is removed but the original pitcher cannot return. So basically this was a completely botched mess and the least of concern was the manager may not be able to coach allstars. 

From the RIM:

“Before that player has pitched†means to a batter. When warming up, if a pitcher is discovered to be ineligible,

he/she must be removed and the previous pitcher may not return. Once the manager/coach makes
his/her intentions known to remove the original pitcher, the original pitcher may not return. If the ineligible
pitcher is discovered “before a ball is pitched to a batter: remove the ineligible pitcher and a protest may not
be filed, however, if the ineligible pitcher is discovered after “a ball is pitched to a batter†the ineligible pitcher
is removed and the opposing team may protest, if desired. However, the protest must be made to the umpire
before the umpire(s) leave the field at the end of the game.

 

Also from the RIM:

League Age 17-18 105 pitches per day

13-16 95 pitches per day
11-12 85 pitches per day
9-10 75 pitches per day
7-8 50 pitches per day
Exception: If a pitcher reaches the limit imposed in Regulation VI © for his/her league age while facing a batter, the pitcher may
continue to pitch until any one of the following conditions occurs: 1. That batter reaches base; 2. That batter is put out;
3. The third out is made to complete the half-inning. Note: A pitcher who delivers 41 or more pitches in a game cannot play the
position of catcher for the remainder of that day.
(d) Pitchers league age 14 and under must adhere to the following rest requirements:
• If a player pitches 66 or more pitches in a day, four (4) calendar days of rest must be observed.
• If a player pitches 51 - 65 pitches in a day, three (3) calendar days of rest must be observed.
• If a player pitches 36 - 50 pitches in a day, two (2) calendar days of rest must be observed.
• If a player pitches 21 - 35 pitches in a day, one (1) calendar days of rest must be observed.
• If a player pitches 1-20 pitches in a day, no (0) calendar day of rest is required.
EXCEPTION: If a pitcher reaches a day(s) of rest threshold while facing a batter, the pitcher may continue to
pitch until anyone of the following conditions occur: 1. That batter reaches base; 2. That batter is retired; 3. The third
out is made to complete the half-inning. The pitcher will only be required to observe the calendar day(s) of
rest for the threshold he/she reached during that at at-bat, provided that pitcher is removed before deliver
ing a pitcher to another batter.
Pitchers league age 15-18 must adhere to the following rest requirements:
• If a player pitches 76 or more pitches in a day, four (4) calendar days of rest must be observed.
• If a player pitches 61 - 75 pitches in a day, three (3) calendar days of rest must be observed.
• If a player pitches 46 - 60 pitches in a day, two (2) calendar days of rest must be observed.
• If a player pitches 31 -45 pitches in a day, one (1) calendar days of rest must be observed.
• If a player pitches 1-30 pitches in a day, no (0) calendar day of rest is required.
EXCEPTION: If a pitcher reaches a day(s) of rest threshold while facing a batter, the pitcher may continue to
pitch until anyone of the following conditions occur: 1. That batter reaches base; 2. That batter is retired; 3. The third
out is made to complete the half-inning. The pitcher will only be required to observe the calendar day(s) of
rest for the threshold he/she reached during that at-bat, provided that pitcher is removed before delivering a pitch to
another batter
(e) Each league must designate the scorekeeper or another game official as the official pitch count recorder.
(f) The pitch count recorder must provide the current pitch count for any pitcher when requested by either manager or any umpire.
However, the manager is responsible for knowing when his/her pitcher must be removed.
(g) The official pitch count recorder should inform the umpire-in-chief when a pitcher has delivered his/her maximum limit of pitches
for the game, as noted in Regulation VI ©. The umpire-in-chief will inform the pitcher’s manager that the pitcher must be removed in
accordance with Regulation VI ©. However, the failure by the pitch count recorder to notify the umpire-in-chief, and/or the
failure of the umpire-in-chief to notify the manager, does not relieve the manager of his/her responsibility to remove a pitcher when
that pitcher is no longer eligible.
(h) Violation of any section of this regulation can result in protest of the game in which it occurs. Protest shall be made in accordance
with Playing Rule 4.19.
 

 

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