Expanded Strike Zone for Little League

[Guest Brian Murphy]

I am a little league coach for 10-12 year olds and I have a philosophical difference with the head umpire in our league and I want to get the opinions of those on the boards here. Recently our kid umpires (our league does not use adults for this age contrary to little league rules, but that's ok) stated telling us coaches during the pre-game meeting that "their" strike zone is from the armpits to the tops of the knees and a baseball's width on the inside and outside of the plate. My objection is that they are not enforcing the strike zone according to the rules of the game and they are giving the pitcher an unfair advantage over the hitter. Our league has a sheet of "local rules" and it does NOT say there is an expanded strike zone for this age. I ask why they are not enforcing the rules of the game and I get a BS answer about encouraging kids to swing and that they don't want a "walk fest."

My argument is that

1) the strike zone is clearly defined in the rule book

2) "encouraging" kids to swing is not the umpires job, that's a coaches job to teach the kids strike zone discipline

3) we as coaches are fully capable of removing a pitcher who has walked a few batters and that's not the concern of the umpire

4) an expanded strike zone only encourages kids to swing at more bad pitches, causing mor swinging k's and backwards k's

5) and umpires job is to Officiate the game fairly according to ALL the rules, not most of them

6) umpires cannot unilaterally decide to make up their own rules

Now I am catching hell because I am questioning this "unwritten" expanded strike zone philosophy and all I am asking is for all of our umpires to call the strike zone according to the definition in the rules!! Is this an unreasonable request?

[KLAH316]

Little League:  "Shin to Shoulders, Line to Line"

[grayhawk]

Not sure what you're complaining about.  Most LL zones are one ball in and two balls out.  Do you watch the LL World Series on TV?  Sure, no umpire should ever say anything about his zone, but as a coach at least you know what you're dealing with.

[carolinablue]

The width of this zone ( ball width inside and out ) is about what they will see at least through HS, and sometimes wider, so they might as well get used to that. The LL rulebook zone is much higher than the standard zone with the armpits being the top and it's lower portion is the top of the knees so nobody is " cheating " there. So basically, the answer they gave you is not BS.

 

I call a wide zone in LL minors and majors and have never seen an agressive hitting team have trouble making contact. Most LL coaches want a wide zone due to the pitch count rules. So my advice would be to accept it and teach your hitters to be agressive at the plate, they will learn better discipline as they move up.

 

Here is a section from the LL RIM. See the bolded portion. Seems LL agrees with your UIC.

 

 

 

 

 

The STRIKE ZONE is that space over home plate which is between the batter's arm-pits and the top of the knees

when the batter assumes a natural stance. The umpire shall determine the strike zone according to the batter's

usual stance when that batter swings at a pitch.

"The Right Call" Casebook - Strike Zone, over home plate (17") and between the batter's arm pits and top of

his/her knees. Beware of the batter who tries to give the impression of a small strike zone by squatting. As the

umpire, you must decide his/her normal position when he/she swings. Once you determine his/her normal stance,

call that strike zone. Comment: "Think Strikes!" Borderline pitches should be called strikes. This encourages the

offensive team to become more aggressive while at bat and provides for a more exciting game. This is not unfair

to one side or the other since the two teams switch sides each half inning

[Mike Prince]

I'd respectfully disagree to some extent that the strike zone is a "rule" per se, but the key point is that it is subject to umpire judgement and interpretation (each umpire has his or her own zone).  I'd worry more about consistency of the zone within a given game as a coach and try to avoid having discussions about what should and should not be a strike during a game as this can lead to you getting ejected.  The end game here is that the batters have to adjust to the zone being called.  If that zone is consistent during a game you have little stance for argument or discussion about it.

[BretMan]

Comment 1: As the umpire, it is dumb, dumb, dumb to get into explanations about "my" strike zone with coaches before a game. All you're doing is setting yourself up for an argument (as evidenced by the above post).

 

First, figure out what your strike zone is going to be. Make it something appropriate for the skill level of the players and expectations of the participants. It shouldn't be ridiculously large or ridiculously small and should be close to the parameters laid out in the rule book. Then be consistent in calling that same zone for every batter, on every pitch, for the entire game.

 

And don't "explain it" before the game. Just go out and call it. If you're consistent, then they'll figure it out for themselves.

 

Comment 2: This has happened to me time and time again. I get a coach who is complaining about the strike zone. So, I ask him what the definition of the strike zone really is. More often than not, they don't have a clue (again, see the above post as evidence).

 

Coach, you're complaining about the definition of the strike zone, but apparently you don't know the Little League definition of the strike zone! It really is the armpits to top of knees. And as far as the "ball width" inside and out, that could mean that the ball is just nicking the edge of the plate, with the edge of the ball furthest away from the plate being 2.8" away (which is a proper interpretation of the strike zone), or that the edge of the ball closest to the plate is 2.8" off the plate (a generally accepted practice), depending on how the umpires are interpreting the "ball width off the plate". 

[Aging_Arbiter]

Note**  Not every LL field has lights..............

 

The game is called baseball..............not baseonballs

[HokieUmp]

I am a little league coach for 10-12 year olds and I have a philosophical difference with the head umpire in our league and I want to get the opinions of those on the boards here. Recently our kid umpires (our league does not use adults for this age contrary to little league rules, but that's ok) stated telling us coaches during the pre-game meeting that "their" strike zone is from the armpits to the tops of the knees and a baseball's width on the inside and outside of the plate. My objection is that they are not enforcing the strike zone according to the rules of the game and they are giving the pitcher an unfair advantage over the hitter. Our league has a sheet of "local rules" and it does NOT say there is an expanded strike zone for this age. I ask why they are not enforcing the rules of the game and I get a BS answer about encouraging kids to swing and that they don't want a "walk fest."

My argument is that

1) the strike zone is clearly defined in the rule book

2) "encouraging" kids to swing is not the umpires job, that's a coaches job to teach the kids strike zone discipline

3) we as coaches are fully capable of removing a pitcher who has walked a few batters and that's not the concern of the umpire

4) an expanded strike zone only encourages kids to swing at more bad pitches, causing mor swinging k's and backwards k's

5) and umpires job is to Officiate the game fairly according to ALL the rules, not most of them

6) umpires cannot unilaterally decide to make up their own rules

Now I am catching hell because I am questioning this "unwritten" expanded strike zone philosophy and all I am asking is for all of our umpires to call the strike zone according to the definition in the rules!! Is this an unreasonable request?

 

In response:

 

1.  And as someone answered, the LL book defined the zone about like this 'expanded' one.  So it looks like you ARE getting the zone 'as defined in the rule book.'

2.  Our encouragement will actually get results.  Coaches spend most of their time with "walk's as good as a hit!" or "good eye!" or "that wasn't you!"  That's hardly teaching strike zone discipline.

3.  No, you're really not.  (Certainly, since you're speaking in broad terms, so will I:  you really are not capable of that.  As a general rule, coaches in that age bracket will usually end up pushing the walks onto us as umpires.  We might be blind, but we're not deaf, skip.)

4.  So?  Has any player lost a big contract or dropped in the draft because he had too many strikeouts when he was 10?  Also, an expanded strike zone also takes bats off shoulders, which means more chances for contact, which means seven kids on defense won't die early from boredom.

5.  If the zone is called the same, where's the unfairness?

6.  No one did.

 

Given that you came here with bullet points, looking for backing from a group that not only hates walk-fests, but likes to see the game move, and loves strikes and outs, yes, it's probably an unreasonable request.

 

By the way:  a baseball's width off the plate means at least part of the ball is crossing the plate, thus making it a strike by definition/rule/interpretation.  This is NOT an expansion of the zone.  Do not let the Fox Trax^tm of the world fool you.

[Guest bM]

Well, these replies prove the point I am trying to make, the strike zone is defined that space "over the plate" between the armpits and the tops of the knees and BretMan, yes I do know how LL defines the zone as I wrote it in my post and CarolinaBlue, the right call casebook is a blog post and an umpires opinion and not official LL policy. It's plain and simple, it's in black and white. The zone is OVER the plate and not a ball width side to side. And there is no such thing as "my zone"... and as I said my only complaint is the fact that the umpire is stating this to us BEFORE the game even starts that's hes basically not going to follow the rules. I never argue balls and strikes during the game. There is a rule book for a reason and if little league baseball really thought the way you all seem to that you should expand the zone, then why don they have an age appropriate rule for the width of the zone? Do the umpires in the LL world series expand the zone? by the way... I have been a LL umpire for 9+ years and I have never imposed anything other then the rule book definition... We all miss pitches here and there, but as a matter of point I do not purposely say I am calling pitches in or out.... So when do you stop expanding your zone then, majors?

[plateumpire]

I have had coaches who actually ask for a generous strike zone, even in high school.

[ScubaUmp]

Never Tell anyone what your strike zone is! This debate will live forever!

LL 9-12 yr olds..... 6 innings X 3 Pitched or Swung at Strikes = 18 pitches and no days rest..... What a wonderful world it would be. Now back to reality.......... or, as the troop from Monty Python would say... Now for something completely different.........

 

Wiki on the Strike Zone Note the Curt Schilling ref.

 

Enforcement

While baseball rules provide a precise definition for the strike zone, in practice it is up to the judgment of the umpire to decide whether the pitch passed through the zone. Historically,^{[citation needed]} umpires often call pitches according to a contemporary understanding of the strike zone rather than the official rulebook definition.

Many factors have contributed to the divergence of the official and conventional strike zones in Major League Baseball. Changes began in the 1970s, when umpires upgraded their chest protection in favor of more compact vests allowing them more movement.^{[citation needed]} Crouching lower meant lowering their line of vision, and caused the boundaries of the strike zone to sink lower. Thus, the strike zone was often enforced such that pitches above the waist were balls, and pitches a few inches outside of home plate were called strikes. As pitchers lost the higher strike zone, they began throwing lower and to the outside, which caused hitters to move much closer to the plate.

At the same time, there was a shift in attitude among both players and league officials regarding pitches thrown inside. While pitchers of the 1960s such as Bob Gibson regarded it a pitcher's right to throw high and inside,^{[citation needed]} later batters were more likely to take offense at such treatment. Major League Baseball also tightened its rules prohibiting pitchers from intentionally hitting batters, removing the warning pitchers formerly received before being ejected from a game.^{[citation needed]} Soon, hitters moved closer to the plate and looked for the ball outside.

In 2001, Major League Baseball directed its umpires to call pitches according to the official definition rather than the conventional one.^{[citation needed]} Umpires were to call "high" strikes and "inside" strikes, while pitches just off the outside part of the plate were to be called balls. The umpires demonstrated limited compliance for a time, but before long the de facto strike zone had returned to the conventional definition. Shortly thereafter,^[specify] Major League Baseball began privately evaluating umpires based on the QuesTec pitch-tracking system. Most umpires, players and analysts, including the authors of a University of Nebraska study on the subject,^[4] believe that due to QuesTec, the enforced strike zone in 2002-2006 was larger compared to the zone in 1996-2000 and thus closer to the rulebook definition. Some commentators, such as Tim Roberts of covers.com, believe that the zone has changed so much that some pitchers, such as Tom Glavine, have had to radically adjust their approach to pitching for strikes.^[5] In 2003, a frustrated Curt Schilling took a baseball bat to a QuesTec camera and destroyed it after a loss, saying the umpires shouldn't be changing the strike zone to match the machines.^[6]

In 2009, a new system called Zone Evaluation was implemented in all 30 Major League ballparks, replacing the QuesTec system; the new system records the ball’s position in flight more than 20 times before it reaches home plate.^[7] Much of the early resistance from Major League umpires to QuesTec had diminished and the implementation of the new Zone Evaluation system in all the parks went largely unnoticed. Like the old system, the new system will be used to grade umpires on accuracy and used to determine which umpires receive post season assignments.^[8]

"You can't pitch fastballs inside anymore, and you never get a called strike with a fastball inside," said former pitcher Gene Garber.^[9]

 

^{Defense loves it, offense Hates it.}

[JHSump]

^^^^^^^ me too.

[JHSump]

I have had coaches who actually ask for a generous strike zone, even in high school.

^^^^^ me too

[plateumpire]

Never Tell anyone what your strike zone is! This debate will live forever!

LL 9-12 yr olds..... 6 innings X 3 Pitched or Swung at Strikes = 18 pitches and no days rest..... What a wonderful world it would be. Now back to reality.......... or, as the troop from Monty Python would say... Now for something completely different.........

 

Wiki on the Strike Zone Note the Curt Schilling ref.

 

Enforcement

While baseball rules provide a precise definition for the strike zone, in practice it is up to the judgment of the umpire to decide whether the pitch passed through the zone. Historically,^{[citation needed]} umpires often call pitches according to a contemporary understanding of the strike zone rather than the official rulebook definition.

Many factors have contributed to the divergence of the official and conventional strike zones in Major League Baseball. Changes began in the 1970s, when umpires upgraded their chest protection in favor of more compact vests allowing them more movement.^{[citation needed]} Crouching lower meant lowering their line of vision, and caused the boundaries of the strike zone to sink lower. Thus, the strike zone was often enforced such that pitches above the waist were balls, and pitches a few inches outside of home plate were called strikes. As pitchers lost the higher strike zone, they began throwing lower and to the outside, which caused hitters to move much closer to the plate.

At the same time, there was a shift in attitude among both players and league officials regarding pitches thrown inside. While pitchers of the 1960s such as Bob Gibson regarded it a pitcher's right to throw high and inside,^{[citation needed]} later batters were more likely to take offense at such treatment. Major League Baseball also tightened its rules prohibiting pitchers from intentionally hitting batters, removing the warning pitchers formerly received before being ejected from a game.^{[citation needed]} Soon, hitters moved closer to the plate and looked for the ball outside.

In 2001, Major League Baseball directed its umpires to call pitches according to the official definition rather than the conventional one.^{[citation needed]} Umpires were to call "high" strikes and "inside" strikes, while pitches just off the outside part of the plate were to be called balls. The umpires demonstrated limited compliance for a time, but before long the de facto strike zone had returned to the conventional definition. Shortly thereafter,^[specify] Major League Baseball began privately evaluating umpires based on the QuesTec pitch-tracking system. Most umpires, players and analysts, including the authors of a University of Nebraska study on the subject,^[4] believe that due to QuesTec, the enforced strike zone in 2002-2006 was larger compared to the zone in 1996-2000 and thus closer to the rulebook definition. Some commentators, such as Tim Roberts of covers.com, believe that the zone has changed so much that some pitchers, such as Tom Glavine, have had to radically adjust their approach to pitching for strikes.^[5] In 2003, a frustrated Curt Schilling took a baseball bat to a QuesTec camera and destroyed it after a loss, saying the umpires shouldn't be changing the strike zone to match the machines.^[6]

In 2009, a new system called Zone Evaluation was implemented in all 30 Major League ballparks, replacing the QuesTec system; the new system records the ball’s position in flight more than 20 times before it reaches home plate.^[7] Much of the early resistance from Major League umpires to QuesTec had diminished and the implementation of the new Zone Evaluation system in all the parks went largely unnoticed. Like the old system, the new system will be used to grade umpires on accuracy and used to determine which umpires receive post season assignments.^[8]

"You can't pitch fastballs inside anymore, and you never get a called strike with a fastball inside," said former pitcher Gene Garber.^[9]

Right I don't want to tell anyone what my strike zone is. They will see it when I call it.

[plateumpire]

 

I have had coaches who actually ask for a generous strike zone, even in high school.

^^^^^ me too

 

One coach even thought that it would be fine if I called a mouth high pitch a strike. He said this in the pre-game meeting. 

[bam]

My goodness.

Leave it to a LL coach to tell umpires what a strike is.

As for telling a coach before a game what the strike one is going to be - "NO"

We've had the discussion previously that college coaches want more strike called. But here we have a LL coach complaining his hitters are cruelly and unfairly the victims of notoriously incompetent "kid officials". The inhumanity of it all! It's BARBARIC!

[T-Rav]

The LL casebook is the official LL casebook to complement the rules, I have one that I got from LL umpire school, its not just some blog post as you say. The umpires that tell you their strike-zone need to stop, it is only an invitation to coaches such as yourself to have a field day with that information, I commend you for not arguing balls and strikes with the umpires. I call lines to lines in all JV and below games, I call a big zone because at these levels pitchers have a hard enough time finding my zone, yet alone a postage stamp zone that you want. I can almost guarantee that the only umpires that actually call the book rule zone are the pros and the guys with the 3 or 4 hour long games. LL recommends calling strikes and I will always gladly take them up on their recommendation. And BTW I routinely volunteer to work LL games with guys that have called the LLWS and the Big League WS, we have an umpire going to the LLWS this year from our group. 

[Rich Ives]

The LL batter's box is 4" from the plate so any pitch that is completely within the lines is pretty much a strike from the inside/outside perspective. Do NOT go wider than that.

 

If the top of the ball is at the top of the shoulders then the bottom hit the strike zone. Do NOT go higher than that.

 

If the midpoint of the ball crosses at the kneecap, that's a strike. Do NOT go lower than that.

 

The plate is the same size as the grownups plate.  BUT, the kids are smaller and have shorter bats. Anyone who wants a wider zone at this level is nuts or just a well meaning, myth believing dad coaching his kid through LL.

 

Learning strike zone discipline is an important part of learning to be an effective hitter. Swinging at anything within reach is BAD. Learn it now.

 

And there are definitely times when a walk is as good as a hit.

[bam]

Learning strike zone discipline is an important part of learning to be an effective hitter. Swinging at anything within reach is BAD. Learn it now.

 

And there are definitely times when a walk is as good as a hit.

I know this guy is preaching to the choir, as the OP came from a coach.

But if you're an umpire, listen to this guy's advice at your own peril. He knows the rules. What he doesn't know is umpiring. IMHO.

PS - there's no way I'm calling the 300+ pitches to which this "well-meaning" advice will lead.

[BigUmpire]

Guest_Brian Murphy

 

Strap on the gear and call at least 50-75 games in age groups from 10U to HS.

Come back with the same question.

 

Respectfully Submitted- BigUmpire

[Aging_Arbiter]

Little League:  "Shin to Shoulders, Line to Line"

 

Box to box & nose to toes, c'mon batter, here we go!

[carolinablue]

 Do the umpires in the LL world series expand the zone? 

 

[Guest Brian]

Let's get back to the point that I was originally trying to make... the strike zone has a definition as the space OVER the plate.  What part of the rules say that an umpire can just call the zone from line to line?  is line to line OVER the plate?  No.  So why do you all say you have your "own" zone?  Because you want to speed up the game?  Because you want to "encourage" kids to swing?  The whole point is that the zone is the zone and umpires should respect the rules and not deviate from what the definition of the zone is.  Now in reality, I am well aware that umpires are not perfect and balls and strikes are called outside the official zone and that's ok, I get it.  But fundamentally saying that you will not enforce the rules is just plain wrong.

 

If LL wanted you to expand the zone then it would be in the book or there would be dedicated footnotes to the strike zone definition for specific age groups....  We have a 2 hour time limit for every game, so why not ump the game by the book?  I have seen other little leagues adopt a "local rule" for expanding the zone for younger ages and that's great because it's written down and everyone knows the local rule.  In our league there is NO local rule, and why do umpires feel this criticism of not enforcing the rules of the game is an affront to their work?  You are taught to be professional and fair and to umpire the game according to the rules... I'm glad none of you are my lawyer.

[KLAH316]

Guest_Brian,

I don't think you understand what all of the experienced umpires here are trying to say....

At EVERY level of youth baseball, the "Strike Zone" is morphed to accomodate the skill level of the game. 

I can promise you that none of us here call a "by the book" strike zone in youth ball. 

Everyone will give a ball or two off the edges of the plate.  Could you imagine NOT giving a strike to the pitch that is just off the white?  These KIDS are not in the MLB.

 

Finally, most of us here are "Professional Umpires who officiate Amature Baseball" and our own interpretation of "The Zone" is in the best interest of the players.

[SoCal Lurker]

Let's get back to the point that I was originally trying to make... the strike zone has a definition as the space OVER the plate.  What part of the rules say that an umpire can just call the zone from line to line?  is line to line OVER the plate?  No.  So why do you all say you have your "own" zone?  Because you want to speed up the game?  Because you want to "encourage" kids to swing?  The whole point is that the zone is the zone and umpires should respect the rules and not deviate from what the definition of the zone is.  Now in reality, I am well aware that umpires are not perfect and balls and strikes are called outside the official zone and that's ok, I get it.  But fundamentally saying that you will not enforce the rules is just plain wrong.

 

If LL wanted you to expand the zone then it would be in the book or there would be dedicated footnotes to the strike zone definition for specific age groups....  We have a 2 hour time limit for every game, so why not ump the game by the book?  I have seen other little leagues adopt a "local rule" for expanding the zone for younger ages and that's great because it's written down and everyone knows the local rule.  In our league there is NO local rule, and why do umpires feel this criticism of not enforcing the rules of the game is an affront to their work?  You are taught to be professional and fair and to umpire the game according to the rules... I'm glad none of you are my lawyer.

 

Brian-

 

I'm not an umpire either (well, I did a season of LL minors 30 years ago, but I'll stick with I'm not an umpire).  With all respect, as a coach, you're completely wasting your time on this.  Umpires develop a strike zone and call it.  No umpire, at any level, calls a pure book strike zone.  As a coach you've got a zillion things you can do to help your kids develop.  Worrying about the philosophy of strike zones really isn't one of them.  Whatever level they play, they are going to have to learn that every umpire has a different zone.  Some people might not like that, but it's simply a fact.  From LL to MLB.  What developing players (heck, all players) need to understand is that they have to watch the game and understand what today's strike zone is.  When a U is picking up lower than usual strikes, they have to swing at those pitches.  When the U isn't calling up at the armpits, they need to realize they don't have to swing at that pitch.  That's baseball.

 

(I could debate you on why the umpires are being told what they are and what I think the UIC is actually trying to accomplish, but I'm not gonna.  From a coaching perspective, I'd humbly submit, everything you need to know is in the paragraph above.)

[Aging_Arbiter]

Game Management. <emphasis on the period>