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Fed rules. R3, RHP. F1 feints to F5. R3 running on 1st move. F1 steps to 3b, without disengaging and after his plant foot touches ground, steps to the plate and throws trying to retire the runner. Batter does nothing.

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Great question and it shows the problem with the HS interp allowing a throw to first in a simialr situation but my question is why is this posted in the section for unregistered guest (what some would call the newbiews section)?

Oh despite the HS interp I mentioned Id call this a balk and end everything else (yes even if the bater hits the throw and the ball leaves in fair territory).

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I started it in "Ask the Ump" for lack of a better place. Rules? Anyway, I forgot to mention HP called R3 out on the tag. I was BU. Tell ya what happened after some more discussion.

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Fed rules. R3, RHP. F1 feints to F5. R3 running on 1st move. F1 steps to 3b, without disengaging and after his plant foot touches ground, steps to the plate and throws trying to retire the runner. Batter does nothing.

Usually, after a step and feint to a base the pitchers foot will come off the rubber. This is a proper disengage according to Jim Evans. If his foot did not drag off the rubber then he did not disengage. I haven't seen that happen.

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Fed rules. R3, RHP. F1 feints to F5. R3 running on 1st move. F1 steps to 3b, without disengaging and after his plant foot touches ground, steps to the plate and throws trying to retire the runner. Batter does nothing.

Usually, after a step and feint to a base the pitchers foot will come off the rubber. This is a proper disengage according to Jim Evans. If his foot did not drag off the rubber then he did not disengage. I haven't seen that happen.

he most definitely did NOT disengage.
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Fed rules. R3, RHP. F1 feints to F5. R3 running on 1st move. F1 steps to 3b, without disengaging and after his plant foot touches ground, steps to the plate and throws trying to retire the runner. Batter does nothing.

Usually, after a step and feint to a base the pitchers foot will come off the rubber. This is a proper disengage according to Jim Evans. If his foot did not drag off the rubber then he did not disengage. I haven't seen that happen.

he most definitely did NOT disengage.

Based on how my head would be spinning if I did not see a disengage I would see it as a disengage and a throw to the plate. If you and more importantly the PU had no disengage then I need help from the cognoscenti.

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Fed rules. R3, RHP. F1 feints to F5. R3 running on 1st move. F1 steps to 3b, without disengaging and after his plant foot touches ground, steps to the plate and throws trying to retire the runner. Batter does nothing.

Usually, after a step and feint to a base the pitchers foot will come off the rubber. This is a proper disengage according to Jim Evans. If his foot did not drag off the rubber then he did not disengage. I haven't seen that happen.

Yes that is what happens the vast majority of the time. But it can happen at least on the 3-1 move where the pitcher does not come off the rubber. That is legal in HS assuming the pitcher actually throws to first but is a balk in pro. Since the 3-1 move is legal in HS that raises the question trout posts about if its followed by a delivery to the plate. Is it a pitch or a throw or a balk?

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Guest carolinablue

why isnt it a balk?

I think the reasoning is that FED has a case book ruling that says a 3-1 move when the pitcher does not disengage is legal.6.2.4So if it's legal to feint to third and then throw to 1st without disengaging, then why would it be a balk to feint to third and then step to the plate and pitch?I can't find a specific rule that says it's illegal but I would call a balk on the move. Throwing to a base is different than throwing a pitch and from the set pos. a pitcher can either disengage, pitch, or step and throw to a base but I don't think he can do both. I dont want to make stuff up but you may even consider a quick pitch here as well. Would like to hear from some of the more veteran guys on the site. Good question.

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The pitcher can do three things. Pitch to the batter, step directly to a base, OR step off. You can't do a combination of those things. I suppose if you feint toward a base, then you have to step off, but otherwise you can't mix and match.

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The pitcher can do three things. Pitch to the batter, step directly to a base, OR step off. You can't do a combination of those things. I suppose if you feint toward a base, then you have to step off, but otherwise you can't mix and match.

Except that it HS you can step to third and then step to first so that's not stepping directly toward first and its still legal.

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I balked him. He never disengaged, therefore, the "throw" to F2 was technically a pitch. He never came set. He stepped to 3rd, which disallows anything but a throw to 3rd since there was no R1, or else he must disengage and reset.. He either had to throw or step off. My partner disagreed, and still does.

Interesting question.... Let's say balk wasn't called and B2 hit the ball. My partner says he would've called BI. I completely and totally disagree. If it wasn't a balk, it must've been a legal pitch. How can a batter not be allowed to swing at a legal pitch?

Thoughts?

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I agree with you. If he didn't disengage and your going to say it's not a balk, then it has to be a legal pitch. I also agree with you that it is a balk so I wouldn't have to worry about the batter hitting the ball.

Question. You gave your reason why you thought it was a balk but what was your partners reason that it's not a balk, the case book ruling ?

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I agree with you. If he didn't disengage and your going to say it's not a balk, then it has to be a legal pitch. I also agree with you that it is a balk so I wouldn't have to worry about the batter hitting the ball.

Question. You gave your reason why you thought it was a balk but what was your partners reason that it's not a balk, the case book ruling ?

All he says is "I saw it clean "

He went with the balk [what choice does he have?], but says no way he would've called it. We did the whole 3rd/1st discussion, but it doesn't apply here IMO.

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The pitcher can do three things. Pitch to the batter, step directly to a base, OR step off. You can't do a combination of those things. I suppose if you feint toward a base, then you have to step off, but otherwise you can't mix and match.

Except that it HS you can step to third and then step to first so that's not stepping directly toward first and its still legal.

The pitcher can do three things. Pitch to the batter, step directly to a base, OR step off. You can't do a combination of those things. I suppose if you feint toward a base, then you have to step off, but otherwise you can't mix and match.

Except that it HS you can step to third and then step to first so that's not stepping directly toward first and its still legal.

Moot point here. No one on 1st

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I agree with you. If he didn't disengage and your going to say it's not a balk, then it has to be a legal pitch. I also agree with you that it is a balk so I wouldn't have to worry about the batter hitting the ball.

Question. You gave your reason why you thought it was a balk but what was your partners reason that it's not a balk, the case book ruling ?

All he says is "I saw it clean "

He went with the balk [what choice does he have?], but says no way he would've called it. We did the whole 3rd/1st discussion, but it doesn't apply here IMO.

I think you nailed it and your partner needs to get in the book. He didn't want to call a balk because he couldn't explain it. Although that is better than calling a balk and saying it looked funny.

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