Police as coaches

[mstaylor]

It was mentioned in my milestone post that hopefully the police would back me unlike the AL coach that made threats.

I had two interesting situations involving officers as coaches. The first I may have told before but it happened 7 or 8 years ago in a JrLL game. I balked a pitcher for blowing through his stop, he said he knew what he did and would correct it. The problem was Dad was not as accommodating, so he threw a fit. I told him that was enough but he would have none of it so I dumped him. He said he would see me in the parking lot after the game. I told him he was now removed from the complex and told game managment to get rid of him. He then asked if I was man enough to take him off the property. I explained I didn't need to be, I could call my friends at the sheriff's dept and have him removed. He said he was the law but he left. The president had to make him leave the property but he did leave. Between the six and seventh inning the president came up and asked if he wanted me to call the cops. I asked why, he was gone. He was watching from the next property. He said if I was comfortable then he would leave it alone. Well, I wanted to know where he was a cop that he was out there threatening me so investigated, I was going to lodge a complaint. Turns out he worked at the state prison.

The second story was a HS coach that was also the school's in school officer. He started the season wearing his baseball uniform but he also wore his badge and gun. This was JV so the first couple of games were with umpires that had less experience and didn't know how to handle it. I was unaware of what was happening until a varsity umpire told him he couldn't do that and refused to secure his weapon. We decided as a board to not allow it and went to the principal to have him handle the problem. Initially he wasn't going to do anything, so I was being put on the game to handle it. My approach was going to be to tell him to secure it or be restricted to the dugout. Fortunately the principal listened to reason and told the coach, no gun or he can't coach. He chose to not coach.

My point was, yes he is allowed by law to wear it anywhere, with a couple of exceptions. We would not allow it on the field for two reasons, one it could be taken from him if a kid flipped out on us. Two, it would be extremely intiminating to a young umpire to have a coach with a gun arguing with him. The first was unlikely, the second was almost a certainty.

[tjthresh]

A gun toting baseball coach! That's got to be a one in a million situation.

[tiger49]

Cops are people too. Hence they come in all types of demeanors. One team I work on a regular basis has two coaches as cops and neither will say boo sh*t until it is time to go and the closest they have come is coming out and asking "Is it okay if I kick some dirt on you?" To which I replied "Sure but I will have to dump you." He turned around and ran back to the dugout without another word.

Some others on the other hand can be a handful and then some. Had one email a vile and damaging letter to a league president, that may still be dealt with by other means that are available to me.

[mstaylor]

There was one LL team that had three coaches and they were all cops. My son's coach at the time was also a SWAT officer. The JV coach was young and gungho and felt he should always wear his gun. He said he was responsible for his weapon and it wouldn't be taken from him. My response was I had an 18 yr old that was trained to do exactly that.

[Rich Ives]

There was one LL team that had three coaches and they were all cops. My son's coach at the time was also a SWAT officer. The JV coach was young and gungho and felt he should always wear his gun. He said he was responsible for his weapon and it wouldn't be taken from him. My response was I had an 18 yr old that was trained to do exactly that.

There are police forces that require their officers to carry at all times.

[Umpire in Chief]

My neighbor is a deputy sheriff in my county and heavily involved in youth sports. For several years he coached the football team my daughter cheered for and more often than not he'd be on the sideline in his sheriff's uniform, including gun belt (I'm fairly certain). I don't know if he does this when he coaches basketball, but I would assume.

Nobody has ever said a word about it, that I know about, and it had never been a concern to me or my family.

But I live in a rural community and virtually everybody knows everybody, and I don't think anybody would give it a second thought. On top of that my area is heavily armed. It would not be unusual to see people at the grocery store, gas station, etc.. openly carrying a side arm and who knows how many people are carrying concealed weapons.

Obviously I've never seen a civilian openly carrying a weapon at a game site.

[txump81]

In my opinion, its one thing if he is in uniform, and another if he is in plain clothes. No reason to carry on the hip in plain clothes. Conceal it.

My neighbor is a deputy sheriff in my county and heavily involved in youth sports. For several years he coached the football team my daughter cheered for and more often than not he'd be on the sideline in his sheriff's uniform, including gun belt (I'm fairly certain). I don't know if he does this when he coaches basketball, but I would assume.

Nobody has ever said a word about it, that I know about, and it had never been a concern to me or my family.

But I live in a rural community and virtually everybody knows everybody, and I don't think anybody would give it a second thought. On top of that my area is heavily armed. It would not be unusual to see people at the grocery store, gas station, etc.. openly carrying a side arm and who knows how many people are carrying concealed weapons.

Obviously I've never seen a civilian openly carrying a weapon at a game site.

[mstaylor]

There was one LL team that had three coaches and they were all cops. My son's coach at the time was also a SWAT officer. The JV coach was young and gungho and felt he should always wear his gun. He said he was responsible for his weapon and it wouldn't be taken from him. My response was I had an 18 yr old that was trained to do exactly that.

There are police forces that require their officers to carry at all times.

Actually there are times they are not allowed to carry, no matter the requirement. They may be required to at least have it secured in the car but if they are going to drink, they can't even do that. Federal law allows an officer to carry most anywhere they wish but it does not insist on it. That was the first thing I checked on, I am friends with many officers on city, county and state police in multible states, even a couple of FBI agents. They all agreed he was allowed to do what he was doing but he was an idiot.

[mstaylor]

If an officer is at a game site in uniform, that is one thing. He is tends to pay attention more when in uniform, especially if he is on duty. Most guys that coach and have to straight from work, still secure their weapon in their vehicle. This guy was wearing a baseball uniform wearing a sidearm. Rich, would an umpire that is an officer be OK wearing a sidearm? :crazy:

[ump81]

Guys, I'm an Officer and Umpire, I rarely ever have my gun off duty but when it is its locked in my car, I have never in 16 years had my gun on a baseball field. In this area we have had many officers as coaches all are reasonable enough to keep thier guns in their car. I kind of agree with the asessment that yes its is legal and we as umps can't prohibt it by law, but to carry on a youth field may be in violaton of that youth associations rules, and they are certainly not too bright and in need of some discretion. There are always a few "Tackleberry's" out there. I will say that after Tuscon I have carried a lot more in a concealed holster, I think I need to make a habit of carrying off-duty a lot more now. My two cents. ump81

[LMSANS]

My brother was a cop for 25 years and an umpire for all of that time and a coach for most of that time. After reading this topic, I asked him what he did, as a coach & an umpire. He said he always secured his weapon in his vehicle. Then he added, "there were plenty of times from both perspectives, it was a good thing I didn't have it with me!" ;)

[BigZigBlue]

You all are talking about coaches carrying a gun onto the field of play. Well I had a situation my second year umpiring at a local park and two state troopers were the coaches. Anyway both worked the same shift and would come to the games dressed in uniform (no gun). The problem I had with one of the coaches, was he was the type of a "mighty mouse EGO". He thought he was God in his uniform. I was 14 at the time and I knew the man for some time. He was on my butt enough " I packed two hunnie buns for him to eat on, plus my butt!" I had enough that I gave him the old stare down after his pitcher walked in the go ahead run. He started barking that He will pull me over when he sees me on the road and give me a ticket for some bull. At that instant my trigger finger was pulled...and he went ballistic....i recorded all what he said signed it and had witnesses signed it..I couldve turned him into the State for it but I waited for just incase he did pull me over...What is the proper way of handling a cop if they are in uniform and act like the guy did towards me?

[Guest]

Here's the deal:

On the field, it's your domain. I'm gonna go ahead and speculate that unless you are working a level where you have uniformed law personnel on the field, anyone wearing their uniform and sidearm are just trying to live the dream a bit more. If them carrying a firearm on the field makes you uncomfortable, by all means, tell them to lose it. If they don't comply, you treat the situation like you would with any other coach who refuses to yield to your order. You know what that means...

Remember, on the field, you're the law.

[Umpire in Chief]

^^ Absolutely ^^

[BigZigBlue]

I know this know and which I did eject the "coach" and it ruined the friendship I had with his family (his son and I were the same age). He was my 1st ejection out of the 2 I have. Since then I have learn more about being an umpire and what it means than just "calling baseball" in which I do believe there is a major difference between being an umpire and calling baseball. Like one being a cop and another being a security guard (No OFFENSE TO ANY PLEASE). Just making a point! And heck I wish more young guys would start umpiring I think umpiring is a dieing job that young guys are willing to do...wheres the love for the game????

[Umpire in Chief]

I know this know and which I did eject the "coach" and it ruined the friendship I had with his family (his son and I were the same age).

I haven't spoken to my across the street neighbors since I called their son out on a banger at the plate in a Legion tournament game... Their loss

[BigZigBlue]

I know this know and which I did eject the "coach" and it ruined the friendship I had with his family (his son and I were the same age).

I haven't spoken to my across the street neighbors since I called their son out on a banger at the plate in a Legion tournament game... Their loss

Yeah like the old saying, " The ones that know you the best or most will throw you under the bus quicker than a man that doesn't know you."

[mstaylor]

The last couple of posts reminds me of the classic Andy Griffith show where Andy gets stuck umpiring his son and calls him out at the plate. In the situation where the cop in uniform, but no gun, threatens you with retaliation for ejecting him, make sure you have a proper ejection report and make sure the BOD gets a copy. A police officer that threatens to pull you over for doing your job is twice a jerk and the BOD needs to know of the problem. Witness reports are a good idea for your protection also.

[BigZigBlue]

The last couple of posts reminds me of the classic Andy Griffith show where Andy gets stuck umpiring his son and calls him out at the plate. In the situation where the cop in uniform, but no gun, threatens you with retaliation for ejecting him, make sure you have a proper ejection report and make sure the BOD gets a copy. A police officer that threatens to pull you over for doing your job is twice a jerk and the BOD needs to know of the problem. Witness reports are a good idea for your protection also.

I filled out a proper complaint form on the internet for the state police (He had some serious stroke). I also typed up a statement about what happened and signed it, had the witnesses sign it and even had the state director sign it because of the way he was being before that. I was praised by the parents and other umpires for sticking up for the game because he was such a jerk (nicely saying).Needless to say he no longer coached after that ordeal.

[Don]

There was one LL team that had three coaches and they were all cops. My son's coach at the time was also a SWAT officer. The JV coach was young and gungho and felt he should always wear his gun. He said he was responsible for his weapon and it wouldn't be taken from him. My response was I had an 18 yr old that was trained to do exactly that.

There are police forces that require their officers to carry at all times.

My son is a sheriff''s deputy and he carrys, almost always. I know the county and I doubt the Sheriff would condone any of his deputies showing *ss as a coach or spectator at any sporting event.

I also coached with a Lieutenant, City cop years ago. I have no idea whether he was carrying or not, but if he was I have no problem. He was an excellent coach, good with kids and never a problem.

I know of one case where a Highway patrolmen was ejected from a game. He left fairly quitely.

If you have law enforcement officers showing their *ss, you need to make the proper folks aware..

[bigblue89]

I had the exact opposite last year where i was working an area in a city that wasn't the safest area at night to the point where there were 2 armed patrolmen at my field after 5 pm. It felt like a contradiction feeling safe having police there but knowing that they had to be there was nerve racking. I know it not the kids fault but needless to say i will not be working for tat league this year, the 25 bucks for a minor league game just is nt worth it.

[mstaylor]

We have an officer at all HS games. I have never needed them but here was a game where there was a fight between fans, had nothing to do with the game.