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"I'm Warning you!"


mjr_2013
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Had quite the problem with a coach.... Here is the report I sent to the League UIC.... It wasn't an ejection report, just preventive umpiring...

Background: The league I'm an independent contractor for is district of a larger league.

Hey [UIC], it's [me], one of the [league] Umpires... I just got home from a game that had a bit of a problem with a coach....

The game was between the [HT] and an [larger league] team from [city] with orange jerseys. I had the bases and [PU] had the plate. Before the game began, we had a conference near home plate between the two teams, and the [AT] manager asked "We are playing [larger league] rules, correct?" Me and [PU] responded, "Yes sir, same rules we've been playing with all year." And he was fine, we started the game...

In the TOP of the first, there was a dropped third strike... The batter runner for [AT] headed towards first, the throw by the catcher took the first baseman off the base, he stuck his glove out and the batter runner ran into the glove for the out... Following the half inning, the [AT] manager called me and [PU] over and told us that the 1B had "barreled" his runner and hurt his runner's wrist... We told him we hadn't seen that, but we would tell the [HT] coach that it would not be tolerated... The [AT] coach then threatened to protest the game if it was to happen again.

In the 3rd inning, there was a play at the plate... The [HT] player slid into home, but was tagged out... The [AT] coach began complaining that the [HT] player had stuck his elbow out to his catcher, which just didn't happen... We told him it hadn't happened to which he responded "This is ridiculous!"... The [HT] manager then half yelled "Come on, let's play ball!", and they proceeded to have a small shouting fight over who their talking to, and :blah

Two innings later, the AT coach came out to take his pitcher out of the game, and as he took the ball from his pitcher, he tells me (standing in B position) "I'm protesting this game by the way"... While the pitcher warms up, I go to [PU] and let him know that he had told me he was protesting the game. We went to the coach and the following exchange occured...

[PU]: Coach, you are protesting this game?

[AT] Manager: Yes, this is ridiculous.

[PU]: On what grounds?

[AT] Manager : Barreling

[PU]: Coach, you argued that barreling happened in the first inning... You can't protest that now.

Manager: I told you guys back in the first inning, if that happened again, I was protesting if it happened again

Me: Coach, you need to tell me or [PU] that you are going to protest before the next pitch is thrown, you cannot come to us 4 innings later.

Manager: Well this is just wrong, I'm protesting, and I am on the [larger league] board, and I'm warning you, I'm watching every one of your calls, and you better not make any mistakes!!!

[PU]: If you would like to protest any further calls in this game, you can come to me or Matt immediately after the play ends, and we will make note of it. Now let's play ball.

The [AT] coach was also unsportsmanlike in the post game hand shake and blew off the [HT] coaches, refusing to shake their hands.

The [HT] won the game by mercy after 6

Me and [PU] just want to be clear that there was no proper protest of this game placed for any in game play, and that to the best of our knowledge, everything both teams did during the game was legal.

The stuff in bold was something I remembered while taking out the names of everything.

He just responded....

Matt,

First, thank you for emailing me to let me know what happened.

As far as I know the [larger league] rules are the regular Little League rules. Protests are only allowed for misapplication of a rule. If you did not think there was any malicious contact between the 1B and the batter-runner then there is nothing to protest. Judgement calls are NEVER subject to protest.

As for the call at home, which went in his favor, just sounds like sour grapes.

It sounds like you and [PU] did everything correctly and have nothing to worry about. If he actually is on the board and complains then he have to deal with me.

I realize the UIC is correct now... I just want to know if you guys have anything to add.... Should I have ejected or warned the coach?

Thanks!

Note: This is the league wide UIC, not the 12u UIC I have had in a post before.

EDIT: Hold on, I'll fix the quotes, they don't look right because I copied and pasted from my email.

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I'm not sure if there was anything ejection-worthy in there because I didn't hear his tone or exactly how he said things, but I would have at least told him that what he was complaining about wasn't protestable when he came up to you after the play at first base. Anything more and you probably tell him to knock it off, then eject if necessary. Hopefully he would get the hint by then though.

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I'm not sure if there was anything ejection-worthy in there because I didn't hear his tone or exactly how he said things, but I would have at least told him that what he was complaining about wasn't protestable when he came up to you after the play at first base. Anything more and you probably tell him to knock it off, then eject if necessary. Hopefully he would get the hint by then though.

The only thing I noticed was that I would not have said anything to the HT coach after the play at first just to passify the VT coach, because his players did nothing wrong. I would have just told him( the VT coach ) it was a clean play and left it at that.

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"Manager: Well this is just wrong, I'm protesting, and I am on the [larger league] board, and I'm warning you, I'm watching every one of your calls, and you better not make any mistakes!!!"

When he says this, he is gone!

Also, IMO, way, way too much conversation. Short answers to questions, short explanations, etc.

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I might be in the same camp as catsbaker in both that line could have earned him a all expense paid trip to the parking lot and there was too much talk.

The less you say the less they can hold against you and can also accidentally say the wrong thing and they will lock in to that and try to crucify you on that.

Like your UIC said, protests are only for misapplication of the rules.

But the great tings others can take from this is when something squirrelly happens on the field even if not EJ worthy you need to let your higher ups know so we can tell if there is a pattern or a bigger problem.

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Ok, thanks guys... Me and my partner figured we should let the UIC know just so if the coach went through with any appeal or protest or complaint and etc, it didn't become our word against his ... This nway, the UIC can shut it down at the highest level before it gets anywhere...

After the game I kinda questioned my decision not to eject, which I've been told before on here that it usually means I should have ejected.

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  • 6 months later...

"Manager: Well this is just wrong, I'm protesting, and I am on the [larger league] board, and I'm warning you, I'm watching every one of your calls, and you better not make any mistakes!!!"

When he says this, he is gone!

Also, IMO, way, way too much conversation. Short answers to questions, short explanations, etc.

+1

Keep it short. The more you say the more fuel your adding to the coach to keep arguing.

Also, I agree with CarolinaBlue. You didn't anything wrong so why tell the HT that it wont be tolerated?

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I'm not sure why I never commented on this when it went around the first time. When I read the thread title I thought, noooooo. I agree that his line about the board and is watching you is a threat, bam, have a nice day.

The original complaint at first, simply tell him you didn't have that but you would keep an eye out. Nothing needs to be said to opposing manager unless he asks what the discussion was about. If he asks, just tell he thought there was contact but you didn't agree. No need to warn for something that didn't happen. On the play at the plate, simply tell him you said you would watch for contact and there wasn't any. When he wants to protest innings later, tell him too late and walk away. To make the threatening statement he will have to follow you to say it. Now you have two reasons to dump him.

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You actually had a couple chances; he moment he threw out that veiled threat about being on the board.....dump him. Second, when he goes back to arguing the call made in the first inning, barreling...dump him.

And what is "barreling", is there such a rule? Sounds more like a process in French wine making.

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I see only one reason why you can't dump him. If is is making a mound visit or changing his pitcher as the BU you should be in shallow right field on the grass not standing in B. This way if he wants to act dumb everyone is going to see it but if you stay there where he can come after you without everyone else knowing if you eject him you may seem like the one going after him, even though that wouldn't have been the case.

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You actually had a couple chances; he moment he threw out that veiled threat about being on the board.....dump him. Second, when he goes back to arguing the call made in the first inning, barreling...dump him.

And what is "barreling", is there such a rule? Sounds more like a process in French wine making.

That is what he called it. I guess he meant malicious contact - barreling over the 1st baseman. :rolleyes:

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I see only one reason why you can't dump him. If is is making a mound visit or changing his pitcher as the BU you should be in shallow right field on the grass not standing in B. This way if he wants to act dumb everyone is going to see it but if you stay there where he can come after you without everyone else knowing if you eject him you may seem like the one going after him, even though that wouldn't have been the case.

Not a bad idea. I've never thought of it... Is it common practice during a pitching change or just something that is a good idea when a coach is PO'd?

Welcome to the board by the way!

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Going to the outfield is common practice and it really pays off in situations like this. Most coaches wouldn't come out to the outfield to say anything to you or they wouldn't raise there voice to yell at you from the pitchers mound and if they do they just made it really easy for you to eject them. If you are BU on any pitching change or mound visit get out on the outfield grass it will prevent a few headaches like this.

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The NCAA doesn't want umpires going to the outfield now unless it's a pitching change. They don't do it in pro baseball either. They want the BU to stay engaged with what's going on in the infield.

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Going to the outfield is common practice and it really pays off in situations like this. Most coaches wouldn't come out to the outfield to say anything to you or they wouldn't raise there voice to yell at you from the pitchers mound and if they do they just made it really easy for you to eject them. If you are BU on any pitching change or mound visit get out on the outfield grass it will prevent a few headaches like this.

Good advice about base umpire location during a pitching change. I too have learned something.

Though what about the PU? I'm thinking he should move up one of the foul lines but he should also make sure that he's in front of the dugout of the team in the field. That way he won't have to listen to any chirping form the team that is at bat. Or should he remain behind home plate during the warm up throws?

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The NCAA doesn't want umpires going to the outfield now unless it's a pitching change. They don't do it in pro baseball either. They want the BU to stay engaged with what's going on in the infield.

I can see why this would be the best practice in NCAA and professional baseball, but I still think that at the high school level or for a LL umpire it is good practice. I do not call any NCAA but I do call NAIA which is bad baseball I know but they haven't mentioned this to us yet, but if the NCAA is doing it im sure we will quickly follow.

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Going to the outfield is common practice and it really pays off in situations like this. Most coaches wouldn't come out to the outfield to say anything to you or they wouldn't raise there voice to yell at you from the pitchers mound and if they do they just made it really easy for you to eject them. If you are BU on any pitching change or mound visit get out on the outfield grass it will prevent a few headaches like this.

Good advice about base umpire location during a pitching change. I too have learned something.

Though what about the PU? I'm thinking he should move up one of the foul lines but he should also make sure that he's in front of the dugout of the team in the field. That way he won't have to listen to any chirping form the team that is at bat. Or should he remain behind home plate during the warm up throws?

On any mound visit as the PU you need to have a routine that you do for every visit that way if you have to go get the coach off the mound no one can accuse you of giving one team more time on a visit than the other.

Mine is this. After I grant the coach time I stand near the plate until he reaches the mound, at that time I turn my back to the infield and brush the plate (even if it is spotless) after I clean the plate I remove my lineup cards from my pocket and move up the line of the defensive teams dugout. If at this time the coach is still on the mound I will head that way making sure to come around the side or front of the coach. (never approach a coach from behind) When I reach the mound I make sure to get to the TOP so that I am above the coach and he is not talking down to me. I simply ask the coach "Coach are we keeping him or are we changing him?" (in reference to the pitcher) Don't let him change the subject to something else just keep him on topic of the pitching change. If he doesn't change him a mark a mound visit on the lineup care (which I already have out) and stay on the mound until the conference is broken up and then hustle back to the plate. If he does make a change he may do so before I get to the mound in this case I am already on his foul line so I will meet him there and get his changes, record them on my lineup card and try to take a pitch from each side of the plate with the new pitcher. During the change BU should be counting warm up pitches to let me know how many are left after I have recorded the changes and looked at two pitches, If there are still pitches left I will just stay close to the dirt at the plate.

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The NCAA doesn't want umpires going to the outfield now unless it's a pitching change. They don't do it in pro baseball either. They want the BU to stay engaged with what's going on in the infield.

In-between innings we are to continue to go to the outfield just as before (pro and NCAA). Not to go to outfield during a change.

It has become (for no real good reason) common for umpires to go to the outfield during a pitching change. They clarified it to use that it is not necessary. I believe it is a completely unnecessary mechanic. In MiLB and most NCAA when the manager/coach calls for a change the BU goes to get him. Calling him out. When he goes into the outfield toward the bull pen to get him the umpire stays. Umpires started just going out there during a change. Really there is no reason to and at the meetings this year clarified this.

Going on to something earlier discussed. Jog to the outfield between innings. If you make an inning ending call (which someone my come out on) walk (with purpose) towards your position and if someone comes out stop and let them come to you. Nobody notices you going that way between innings except on an inning ending call. Then you look like you are running away from a call. Walk and let him come to you.

Hope that helps

Edited by rodatc
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The NCAA doesn't want umpires going to the outfield now unless it's a pitching change. They don't do it in pro baseball either. They want the BU to stay engaged with what's going on in the infield.

Misread your post. We are on the same page. My mistake

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If he doesn't change him a mark a mound visit on the lineup care (which I already have out) and stay on the mound until the conference is broken up and then hustle back to the plate.

This is basically the only difference in my approach. I mark all conferences as the coach walks out to the mound. If he changes the pitcher, I cross out the meeting; if he keeps the pitcher, it's already on my card.

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